SCIN wrote:If there is a large hold which can be reached by traversing more than horatio_fill_in_the_blank feet then it just means the line is of lesser quality. The best lines don't have any "traverse to a hold which may be considered "off"" jazz on them.
I would like to agree with this SCIN. It is just not true for the Red. Take Snooker. Most would agree that it is of very high quality. It was originally done finishing on 8-ball for a 12d outing. Arguably the path of least resistance. Then Snooker was 13a that had its own finish. This is about as contrived as it gets. But I think it is still one of the Reds finer "lines". Is it of lesser quality? It is the nature of the beast. The Red is heavily featured and will give people opportunities for different sequences. Are the lines less pure? Maybe. Is the quality climbing dimished? I don't think so. Like Chriss said every one is going to climb these routes differently.
I can think of very few routes that didn't have some discrepancy for some people. Does it make it lesser quality just because Andrew and Artsay do a route differently?
stix wrote:i can do the moves out that way no problem. i fell up there and was lookin for good beta for that section and started headin that way on the horizontal, kept goin and did those moves first go (they're easy). it took me a coupla goes off the hang to go straight up to the 2 finger. i thought the line way better, more fun, more continuous, and more accurate for the grade goin straight up so i kept tryin that way till i did it.
This is the whole point. You are illustrating it perfectly. People have different strengths. Maybe you are weak on two finger pockets and better on big moves. So what. Everyone should do it your way because you did?
You keep using "fun" as your reasoning for doing things the hard way. That is fine and dandy but you are also trying to convince other people that this "fun" way is the correct way. It is just not true.
climbing is great because we have the freedom to make rules to govern others WITHOUT letting them know, until after they send with the tree dab and non-standard beta. what a wonderful game we play.
i think the root of this all for me is the old argument of people climbin for the #'s. i'm not convinced that people are "skippin cruxes" cuz they think it's more fun....i think most people do it so they can say they did the route. to them the "fun" is sending the number as opposed to climbing the cleanest movement.
"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation." Thoreau
"cleanest movement" ....just another catch phrase for those trying to be elitist.
climbing for "fun" is no more honorable than climbing for "numbers"....it just allows many to underperform or not try as hard, and then justify their failure at a given grade.
stix wrote:i think the root of this all for me is the old argument of people climbin for the #'s. i'm not convinced that people are "skippin cruxes" cuz they think it's more fun....i think most people do it so they can say they did the route. to them the "fun" is sending the number as opposed to climbing the cleanest movement.
Doesn't make sense to me. So when you are sending your hardest project do you look for ways to shake out, areas to conserve energy, different ways to hold holds, possible knee bars, etc. etc.? If you do then you are just climbing for the number and not the fun. You are digging deep into your bag of tricks to send the line. That is what sending a project at your limit is all about.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
