PDs at Lode

[THB]

Maybe you are much better at feeling your fixed gear when are gripped out and making that determination if the edge is sharp. For me it is much easier (quicker) to hang a draw than to make an evaluation of the gear I am climbing on. Oh and to be clear... I didn't onsight, and fell pulling the roof.

It also isn't about whether or not it makes it easier to climb... Hands down, PDs make it easier. Just maybe not safer.

you can easily hang a draw on the same hanger that a perma-draw is hanging from.

[THB]

Wednesday, November 9, 5:30 pm at 560 East Third Street.

Thank you, Shannon. I'll be there! Hopefully we can get some attendance from the people that are living in Winchester/Stanton/Slade.

[climb2core]

Maybe you are much better at feeling your fixed gear when are gripped out and making that determination if the edge is sharp. For me it is much easier (quicker) to hang a draw than to make an evaluation of the gear I am climbing on. Oh and to be clear... I didn't onsight, and fell pulling the roof.

It also isn't about whether or not it makes it easier to climb... Hands down, PDs make it easier. Just maybe not safer.

you can easily hang a draw on the same hanger that a perma-draw is hanging from.

You are 100% correct. Just so damn tempting to use.

[caribe]

Wednesday, November 9, 5:30 pm at 560 East Third Street.

= Can we hammer out an agenda?
If we do not have an agenda nothing is going to get done. There will be table talk and socializing and the conversation might get heated about controversial issues, but no resolutions will agreed upon.
= Does the RRGCC own this tête-à-tête or is this meeting aimed at an ecumenism of sorts in the Red River Gorge climbing community? If the latter, then on some level, resolutions from the meeting will be toothless and lack authority save that which maintains good citizenship in the individual--a one-time event that will fade over the months. If the RRGCC is only committed to access, and access infrastructure and is not doing get involved in gear-maintenance then perhaps we need yet another governing body.
I like Shannon's suggestion of a gear maintenance committee in the RRGCC.

[pigsteak]

it is not a rrgcc sanctioned meeting. just concerned climbers.

[DriskellHR]

Wednesday, November 9, 5:30 pm at 560 East Third Street.

= Can we hammer out an agenda?
If we do not have an agenda nothing is going to get done. There will be table talk and socializing and the conversation might get heated about controversial issues, but no resolutions will agreed upon.
= Does the RRGCC own this tête-à-tête or is this meeting aimed at an ecumenism of sorts in the Red River Gorge climbing community? If the latter, then on some level, resolutions from the meeting will be toothless and lack authority save that which maintains good citizenship in the individual--a one-time event that will fade over the months. If the RRGCC is only committed to access, and access infrastructure and is not doing get involved in gear-maintenance then perhaps we need yet another governing body.
I like Shannon's suggestion of a gear maintenance committee in the RRGCC.

The CC DOES NOT maintain fixed gear. There is a group that HELPS maintain fixed gear.
But i dont think they fool with Permadraws
http://teamsuckclimbing.com/

[pigsteak]

mr driskell..I have seen the by laws, and the CC in fact did have a "gear maintenance" crew back in 2002. what happened to it? Tim Powers headed it up at first, of that I do know.

[the lurkist]

The over arching issue is climbers behavior. If everyone who climbed in the Red had climbed initially with an experienced mentor and came to the cliff with the behavioral expectations of the climbing community already established, I think we could all agree that many of the accidents, overcrowding, impacts, etc.. would be much less. But the reality is many of the people coming have a paucity of experience.
We can fault the inexperienced user for not knowing safe belaying, how to scrutinize gear, for not leashing their dogs, pooping at the cliff, choosing to go to a packed cliff, but the reality is they will continue to do so, unless we make clear community standards through education. Sure, it isn't a replacement for mentorship, but shame on us if we continue to sit back and watch worsening impacts and conflicts within the community and don't take some responsibility for fixing it.
The community coming together to sort out these standards and how to communicate them has now clearly become imperative.
The Miguel' meeting was meant to be the first attempt to diffuse the PD conflict and establish a discourse to redefine the larger problem. Thanks to Shannon for helping facilitate a more concrete discourse. Please show up for this one.

[DriskellHR]

well, I reckon I stand corrected, However I have read the bylaws too, and I found nothing stateing that (2006 revision). I know our stance (at least in my time of involvment) Is that we don't maintain fixed gear. Been stated time and time again.

you chuffaluffagus

[Artsay]

I agree with caribe with the need for an agenda to stay on topic if not just to let people know what to expect. Personally, I don't know if I can make it since 12 hour work days are my (temporary) life for a few more weeks and 5:30pm is working hours. BUT I will try and the agenda will help me know what part of the meeting I will be coming into if I'm late. That said, I'm meeting individually with folks prior that are going.