RRC Archives

Well I watched a kid who was a steward at Muir decided to take a crowbar up a new wall after the wall filled with people to knock off loose holds. That was interesting considering not only the fact that there were people below, but also that just within the hour or so we were there, each route had been climbed several times with no issues.

mike_a_lafontaine wrote: Is sliding the prussik too much a pain in the ass to bother with it?

Yes!

pigsteak wrote:why were you glad he did not have a gri gri.

Because I asked him if you uses the grigri and he said no. IMO: the grigri in the hands of someone who is not real familiar with it does not optimize safety.

Safety isn't cool.

mike_a_lafontaine wrote:Question about using an ATC: I know a lot of people say they like the gri-gri or some type of auto locking belay device incase their belayer becomes incompacitated. I've only used an ATC, I have no idea how to use a gri-gri. But if I back my ATC up with a prusic to a rated part of my harness, doesn't that in effect make the ATC auto-locking? I've never done it while belaying, but routinely do so when rapping. Has anyone tried this? Is sliding the prussik too much a pain in the ass to bother with it?

I'd have to see the rig to say for sure, but I can't imagine you'd be able to give a very good belay with that on. ATC's work fine 99% of the time as long as the climber does not outweigh the belayer by too much. About 30-40 pounds seems to be the turning point, after that the difference is too high for ATC'ers to maintain control on big falls, particularly if they are in danger of hitting a roof or something while being dragged up.

All the irrationals and double standards in climbing kill me.

People say they prefer a gri gri over and ATC because if in the event a belayer hits their head they won't drop the climber. I very unlikely scenario. Yet they are not wearing a helmet to prevent the unlikely scenario that a climber could flip upside down and hit their head. People insist on redundancy in anchoring and belaying, yet while using a gri gri you are betting it all on that single pin that holds the whole device together! While bouldering, you wouldn't dare climb 10 feet off the ground without a pad and spotter, yet people still think its lame to use a stick clip while sport climbing. You wouldn't let your drunk and stoned friend drive you home from the party yet you let him belay you on your proj...cuz you got it man its cool.

I still see no better argument for using a gri gri over an ATC. Using a gri gri is really a matter of lazy convenience and trendy-ness over any real extra safety. Why else would people ignore Petzl's guidelines that say you should NOT use a rope less than 10mm with a gri gri, yet most climber use that trendy 9.5mm rope all the time.....Really does that extra few ounces make the difference in your redpoint burn or are you really just too lazy to hike with a little extra weight?

Shamis wrote:About 30-40 pounds seems to be the turning point, after that the difference is too high for ATC'ers to maintain control on big falls, particularly if they are in danger of hitting a roof or something while being dragged up.

Then find a heavier belayer or use a belay anchor. Do you really want that lighter belayer being pulled up to the first bolt where the gri gri can snag on the draw and dump open the cam?

rhunt wrote: Using a gri gri is really a matter of lazy convenience and trendy-ness over any real extra safety.

this argument is lazy. and trendy.

Shamis wrote:ATC's work fine 99% of the time as long as the climber does not outweigh the belayer by too much. About 30-40 pounds seems to be the turning point, after that the difference is too high for ATC'ers to maintain control on big falls, particularly if they are in danger of hitting a roof or something while being dragged up.

The problem with the significant weight differential has nothing to do with the belay device. No matter what device is used, a belayer is going to get crushed by a heavier climber if he or she is in their fall zone - and often times you have to be in order to keep your climber safe. I've caught big whippers using my ATC when outweighed by as much as 75-90 lbs. Even after having my neck destroyed in one belaying incident, I didn't let go of my brake hand. I know it is because I never have. Belayers who are lazy and let go with the brake hand as a matter of course will probably do so when they get hit by their climber (or anything). It's a habit. If and when that GriGri cam gets opened at the bolt, well, hello ground!

Art, that Click Up looks pretty cool. Too bad you can't rappel with it.

I am so glad I read this thread, by the way! More idiot reports, please