RRC Archives

And this, from sayanything.com -

"Today France’s new leader Nicolas Sarkozy gave a speech before Congress that was, dare I say, almost...Reaganesque. He called America “the greatest nation,â€

Day, I honestly applaud your optimism, I wish I could view the world as you do, its almost as if you would be surprised about every scandal, every misdirection, and every situation that has a deeper explanation. Have you ever met a politician that you thought was trustworthy, besides at the lowest of local levels. (my uncle is a treasurer for La Salle/Peru in IL, he's even republican and I trust him). Do you think that the leaders of other countries are any different? Do you think they would make any statement if it did not have political or, more importantly, personal motivations? We probably taught all those leaders how going to war can make billions for the leaders of the countries, and that next time, we should invade iran together.

krampus wrote:We probably taught all those leaders how going to war can make billions for the leaders of the countries, and that next time, we should invade iran together.

Wow. Do you really believe this, or do you just say it for dramatic effect? Are we making money in Iraq right now? We went into Iraq for money, for oil? Are we stealing their oil?

Barbaric = waterboarding
Barbaric = Abhu Graib
Barbaric = denial of habeus corpus
Barbaric = death penalty
Barbaric = invading another country on false pretexts, destroying it, and then utterly failing to secure it much less repair the damage done by decades of harsh sanctions and lots of bombs

Day, the idea that our bombs don't kill innocent bystanders is just stupid. Try as we might to minimize "collateral damage," when you drop a 1000 pound bomb in a residential neighborhood you are going to kill people around that impact site. And believe it or not, we miss quite often even with our laser guided bombs and cruise missiles.

Alan, where's the balance? Where's the talk about the enemy's barbarism?

We should question, we should debate. But you have a foaming, one-sidedness that is unreasonable. I believe that most Iraqis probably have a better opinion about what we're doing there than you do.

der uber wrote:Where's the talk about the enemy's barbarism?

Since when does enemy barbarism have anything to do about it? We're supposed to be the most powerful, most educated, most civilized nation in the world, that means we're supposed to be better than our enemies, not using the same barbaric practices.

der uber wrote:

krampus wrote:We probably taught all those leaders how going to war can make billions for the leaders of the countries, and that next time, we should invade iran together.

Wow. Do you really believe this, or do you just say it for dramatic effect? Are we making money in Iraq right now? We went into Iraq for money, for oil? Are we stealing their oil?

I used the term "probably" meaning I don't really believe this, but it would not surprise me if it were the case. Friends of this administration seem to profit immensely.

der uber wrote:Alan, where's the balance? Where's the talk about the enemy's barbarism?

If you want to talk about 'the enemy' as an opposing equal, then fine, we should list their (assuming we're talking about, al Qaeda and their allies) horrors.

But aren't we the "good guys"? Aren't they the "bad guys"? Should we lower ourselves to their level? If you want to say that we're just some gang and we're going to out muscle some other gangs for world power, then fine. But some of us think that the US stands for something more than raw power. We're a Constitutional democracy with human and civil rights in our nation's "DNA". We set higher standards for the conduct of the US around the world than merely "out killing the enemy." We're better and stronger than that, aren't we?

What I'm saying, Abhu Graib, compared to what they do looks tame. They cut peoples heads off in front of their families They gouge the eyes out of captured soldiers, while they're still alive. they walk into a crowd of civilians, waiting in line to join the forces, and blow up as many of them as they can.

And that's not to defend what happened in Abhu Graib. I don't think we're perfect. I do think that the most of our guys and gals over there are trying to do the right thing, and I have to imagine it is a very tough place to be right now.

Seems like we're being equated with the people that we're fighting. Like I said, I think the people of I raq get it better, which is why they're coming around.

[quote="L K Day"]What’s particularly interesting is that, years ago when the Bush presidency was new and Iraq was a fresh issue, the left told us constantly that George Bush was making America less popular in the world. Yet during the President’s term in office three of our traditional allies (Canada, Germany and now France) elected leaders that displaced virulently anti-Bush and anti-American leaders with people more of Sarkozy’s temperament (Stephen Harper in Canada and Angela Merkel in Germany).

Sort of almost seems like...that whole “less popular Americaâ€