Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:38 pm
why again do we rate routes?
Page 5 of 6
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:40 pm
The Gift is damn hard. I tried that once not knowing what it was rated. Looked nice from the ground. Lost a biner that day.
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:43 pm
Nice.RRO wrote:Dear pigmeat, you are a subhuman tool old man. Stay out of this sandbagger's sandbox.
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:34 pm
for the ladies my man. bolting a 5.12 means you have a huge wang. we should just change the name of the Surf to Kipp's Huge Wang Wall.pigsteak wrote:why again do we rate routes?
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:17 pm
After someone says I did it, the natural question is how hard was it? Quantifying difficulty by numbers is a simple linguistic tool.
"How many rocks you have? Can you spare one?" "I have 11, yes I can spare one."
I wondered many time how difficult it would be to encode a computer algorithm to grade a route given the topology (including the little crimpy shit) relative to the line of gravity and an average set of physical parameters of a climber. I am not a programmer . . . but I still wonder. However, there is a better way.
SCIN has it right. Letting everyone vote anonymously about route grades is a good thing. Accepting the majority consensus and trying to hit the majority consensus when the FA suggests a grade is also a good. What is all the machismo associated with route grade all about? In the end, people can see through it--hence Ashtray's post.
Leave it up to the unwashed idiots and you get a good answer. No experts, no elite climber Junta that officially puts grades on routes after secret meetings behind closed doors, just everyone votes. People trying to sandbag don't get their way and people trying to soften it up to mollify their bruised egos don't get it their way. This process is why democracy is the best system of government, especially direct democracy in small groups.
Check out this book:
The Wisdom of Crowds: Why the Many Are Smarter Than the Few and How Collective Wisdom Shapes Business, Economies, Societies and Nations (Hardcover)
by James Surowiecki
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... wnycorg-20
OK skip it. Don't check out the book. Just go to the amazon site and read the first 3 pages.
I think that the hard core climbers fear grade inflation, rampant grade inflation that knows no end. I was not involved with the sport when 5.10 was the hardest thing out there, but I take a clue from the guys who were.
I had a conversation with Captain Static (Bill Strachan) who was telling me about some difficult route around Superior (I think) that was kicking everyone in the rubber parts until the shoes got better and one person cracked the move code, then 'everyone' started sending. Jeez, I am going to catch hell for this, but as near as I can figure the grades went up because the rubber, and the gear made climbing easier. The routes got more difficult. They all learned from each other and reading international magazines about climbing. . . . etc. monkey see monkey do.
When I am pumping away on my bike on the way home from work going for the burn trying to keep it at 32 kph I think back on how solid Roger Banister was running the mile at an average of 24 kph.
http://www.englandhistory.com/sections/ ... nister.htm
He would be cranking along besides me and taking he on the hills. Today the 4 min mile is history, but I am not running it.
"How many rocks you have? Can you spare one?" "I have 11, yes I can spare one."
I wondered many time how difficult it would be to encode a computer algorithm to grade a route given the topology (including the little crimpy shit) relative to the line of gravity and an average set of physical parameters of a climber. I am not a programmer . . . but I still wonder. However, there is a better way.
SCIN has it right. Letting everyone vote anonymously about route grades is a good thing. Accepting the majority consensus and trying to hit the majority consensus when the FA suggests a grade is also a good. What is all the machismo associated with route grade all about? In the end, people can see through it--hence Ashtray's post.
Leave it up to the unwashed idiots and you get a good answer. No experts, no elite climber Junta that officially puts grades on routes after secret meetings behind closed doors, just everyone votes. People trying to sandbag don't get their way and people trying to soften it up to mollify their bruised egos don't get it their way. This process is why democracy is the best system of government, especially direct democracy in small groups.
Check out this book:
The Wisdom of Crowds: Why the Many Are Smarter Than the Few and How Collective Wisdom Shapes Business, Economies, Societies and Nations (Hardcover)
by James Surowiecki
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... wnycorg-20
OK skip it. Don't check out the book. Just go to the amazon site and read the first 3 pages.
I think that the hard core climbers fear grade inflation, rampant grade inflation that knows no end. I was not involved with the sport when 5.10 was the hardest thing out there, but I take a clue from the guys who were.
I had a conversation with Captain Static (Bill Strachan) who was telling me about some difficult route around Superior (I think) that was kicking everyone in the rubber parts until the shoes got better and one person cracked the move code, then 'everyone' started sending. Jeez, I am going to catch hell for this, but as near as I can figure the grades went up because the rubber, and the gear made climbing easier. The routes got more difficult. They all learned from each other and reading international magazines about climbing. . . . etc. monkey see monkey do.
When I am pumping away on my bike on the way home from work going for the burn trying to keep it at 32 kph I think back on how solid Roger Banister was running the mile at an average of 24 kph.
http://www.englandhistory.com/sections/ ... nister.htm
He would be cranking along besides me and taking he on the hills. Today the 4 min mile is history, but I am not running it.
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:56 pm
could be the microbrews and improved dope cultivation
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:26 pm
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:52 pm
RRO, I agree with your thoughts about how you liked to be challenged. I do get on routes that I have no idea about the grade. Many of the routes have been your routes. Then later I look to see what grade was attached. It is very fun for me to climb this way but 9 times out of 10 I do this on routes that are well within my ability, I mean how hard can a heavily featured slab be at the Red? I have got to believe that you have a pretty good idea what you are going into when you get on these routes too. If you are so into the unknown challenge why not try some routes that you know to be hard for you. I have seen you bouldering. You are very strong. It seems to me that you are not sandbagging yourself enough Mr. "softy or a stiffy"?
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:10 pm
Basically, complaining that the rating system should just be done away with, is just as retarded as the rating system.
Nobody makes you pay attention to it. Nobody but our gigantic egos, that is.
Its to give a general idea... nothing more, nothing less. Pay attention or ignore it. Whining does no good. Then again, most people on here are sport climbers.....
Nobody makes you pay attention to it. Nobody but our gigantic egos, that is.
Its to give a general idea... nothing more, nothing less. Pay attention or ignore it. Whining does no good. Then again, most people on here are sport climbers.....
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:00 am
asdf