Preferred belay device?

Post by **vid** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:49 pm

Gri Gri for top rope and sport, ATC for trad. On multi pitch I carry both. Also the knowledge of the Munter Hitch is a good thing. Been to the Dacks climbing when I saw two french men from Quebec drop their Gri Gri and they ended up using a prussik for the rest of the climb. Very Scary

Post by **Meadows** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:58 pm

caribe wrote:I cringe when I see people at the crag with their hand off the brake end of the rope when operating the grigri.
Petzl does not recommend this:
http://en.petzl.com/ProduitsServices/GR ... rience.pdf

Look closer ...

Post by **caribe** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:24 pm

Meadows:

Yes, the behavior in Fig 2a is not what would sketch me out. However, I see people at the crag with the grigri just hanging there or the brake-end of the rope simply unattended. The grigri is IMHO a solid device because people generally do not observe Fig 2a.

"To feed out rope rapidly . . . BRIEFLY block . . . People should realize that position three (from left above) is the danger zone and a moment of "OFF BELAY".

If I am doing anything wrong at the crag, I want people to talk to me. Also this is discussion is probably better aired than stifled.

Post by JB » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:28 pm

caribe wrote:As the red herring goes sailing through the air pursued by a canard, seriously, do you see people belaying with ATC-type devices without holding the braking side of the rope? What point are you trying to make? ATC-ers at the crag in general seem to be very good belayers IMHO.

The point i was making was that you should know your device. i believe i put it in bold. atc is to a gri gri as a a munter is to a tube style device. they both are completely functional, but should not be used in the same manner.

And yes, i seriously have seen many people let go of the rope while using an atc... i've seen people deck because of it. i've seen idiots take both hands off to cover their head during rockfall and then take it off again to put a helmet on during the same climb.

I am actually not voicing a preference or succumbing to some kind of "belay device elitism". are you?

Post by **caribe** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:42 pm

This is what I would complain about. By the way I am not thinking about anyone in particular while I am posting. It is good to get this out and discuss it. We can hopefully minimize the number of accidents.

Also, I am not trying to put myself above having an accident. I have bursts of angst about dropping someone {that annoying forum poster who does not sign in

}. When I do I review the literature.

Post by **caribe** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:49 pm

JB:

I use three devices: the SBG, reverso and grigri. With one of my ropes the grigri does not run so well. This behavior appears to be humidity-dependent. I am not voicing any device bigotry. The device is mostly user-dependent. Belaying is such serious biz . . . dropping someone would ruin our lives.

What you are describing with the ATC shocks me. At that point you just have to say something.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:51 pm

ok..I'll say it caribe...gumbies and traddies should stay home.

seriously though, this discussion makes political ramblings on here seem sort of interesting....almost

Post by **caribe** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:55 pm

Pigs:
Come on . . . how could someone so far on the right have a problem with tradition?: apple pie, baseball, squeezers and pinchy things . . .

Post by JB » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:25 pm

caribe wrote:JB:

I use three devices: the SBG, reverso and grigri. With one of my ropes the grigri does not run so well. This behavior appears to be humidity-dependent. I am not voicing any device bigotry. The device is mostly user-dependent. Belaying is such serious biz . . . dropping someone would ruin our lives.

What you are describing with the ATC shocks me. At that point you just have to say something.

I use multiple devices as well... and it sounds like we're mostly on the same page... and when i see somebody fumbling with the atc or the grigri, i most definitely say something, and then i run far away so i don't have to experience their carnage.

and with that... arguing with pigsteak can lead to carnage as well... so away i go.

Post by **Wes** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:35 pm

Ah, I let got of my brake with the gri-gri all the time. And I am sure I do other things that are not by the book. I let total strangers that have never climbed before belay me on easy routes. I let people I just met in the parking lot belay me on hard onsights. I fall alot. I climb high ball boulders and free solo. I have old gear. I lead on ropes with core shots. Fuck it, can't live forever.