Guns make you safer.

[gunslnga]

Baghdad has a lot of guns, and a lot of crime. Swizterland has a lot of guns, and virtually no crime.

Bagdad, to include the newly trained police, various militias, rogue insurgents and just about everybody but the mass civilians are armed.
who will be the crime victims here??? the unarmed, that's who, basicaly
a predator prey relationship.

Switzerland, A country with a conscript Military, who after active duty, remain on reserve status and are made to keep they're issue weapon(SIG 55O assault rifle)in they're homes with a combat load of ammo(300 rounds) and a pistol(Sig P226 9mm) so if they mobilize they are already armed and ready.

I don't think these are good comparisons for the arguements made here,
England and Australia though are 2 good reasons why an all out gun ban and seizure are not the way for the US to go.

ENGLAND:

www.reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml

http://www.reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml

www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2205

AUSTRALIA:

http://blogs.theage.com.au/yoursay/arch ... ntrol.html

www.yauponcreek.org/GunControl/AustraliaFacts.html

http://a.hugetiger.com/AO/Guns/Sept19co ... ntrol.html

These are just a few of the thousands to pick from, all the same, all unhappy and scared Aussies and Brits who feel they're government both betrayed them and tossed them to the wolves. We are fortuneate to have land mass to thin us out as a country, Australia is all cities for the most part, because who wants to live in the outback and England just does'nt have any real land, so they're populations tend to be on top of each other. A good example of this is New York, they have the strictest gun control laws in the country, and they're violent crime is sky high(FBI Statistics 2005) In one of the above links, a Brit did some old homework on this, read it, you'll find it enlightening. As always I don't have any solutions or quick fixes we tend to look for, but if I can shed any light or none at all, I at'least try............

[kato]

I know this isn't necessarily a rational thought, but it seems to me that every gun control supporter must be thinking in the back of their mind, "Someday I might need to rob somebody."

[TradMike]

1. Fact: Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. That's right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.

3. Fact: Accidental gun deaths among children have declined by over 50 % in 25 years, even though the population (and the gun stock) has continued to increase.

4. Fact: Despite the low number of gun accidents among children, most of these fatalities are not truly "accidents." According to Dr. Gary Kleck, many such accidents are misnamed -- those "accidents" actually resulting from either suicides or extreme cases of child abuse.4 Dr. Kleck also notes that, "Accidental shooters were significantly more likely to have been arrested, arrested for a violent act, arrested in connection with alcohol, involved in highway crashes, given traffic citations, and to have had their driver's license suspended or revoked."

[Alan Evil]

[lordjim_2001]

alan evil doesn't think
he let's cartoons think for him

[Alan Evil]

Synchronicity and irony just pass you by...

[Alan Evil]

Australian crime rates:

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/fact ... Crime.html

The homicide rate was 1.9 in 1996 and was at its highest in 1999 at 2.0 per 100,000 before dropping to 1.5 in 2004.

Homicide Assault Sexual assault Robbery Kidnapping
1996 354 114,156 14,542 16,372 478
1997 364 124,500 14,353 21,305 564
1998 332 130,903 14,336 23,801 707
1999 386 134,271 14,104 22,606 766
2000 363 138,708 15,759 23,336 695
2001 346 152,283 16,897 26,591 767
2002 365 160,118 17,977 20,989 706
2003 341 158,629 18,237 19,709 696
2004 293 na na 16,490 768

Where's that dramatic increase? Some crime rates have increased some, while others have stayed the same or decreased (like murder).

US murder rates per 100,000 = 7.4 in 1996 and 5.6 in 2005 (dropped steadily from 1996 to 2000 and has stayed fairly steady at MORE THAN DOUBLE the rate in Australia.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

[climbboy]

Where is the line anyways?
Should everyone be able to own whatever kind of gun they want?

As someone asked a bit earlier should we be able to own an RPG? A 50 cal. machine gun?

Is there a limit or should it be anything goes?

I ask this question honestly.

I believe people should be able to own guns.

I also don't think it is unreasonable to ask people to wait a couple of days to buy a tool expressly designed to kill people (ie a handgun. . . if you think its for something different you got a screw loose. . . target practice is only practice to kill people). Seems like a fair compromise.

Ironic how all the complaints will now arise about gov't lists etc.

Where were all these complaints on the right when the warrantless surveillance was going one. Many libertarians seemed strangely quiet on that one.

So, back to my original question. For all you NRA ideologues: where is the line?

[climbboy]

oops. correction:

warrantless surveillance that *is* going on.

[Day]

climboy- You can own a 50 cal. machine gun, legally, as well as guns equipped with silencers, etc. You just have to get a license. RPGs are not guns. So I guess your question is "What should one be allowed to own without license or registration?" Good question, which federal, local and state governments have already answered. Currently it's pretty close to any firearm that's not capable of fully automatic fire. There may still be limits on magazine capacity as well, not sure, though there have been such limits in the past. The funniest limits are based on what a gun looks like. That is, there can be two weapons that are functionally identical, one looks civilian, one looks military. In some jurisdictions the one with the military look is illegal.