RRC Archives

jim wrote: If an employer is properly classifying you as an employee, as opposed to trying to do some shady independent contractor thing, then taxes should be deducted from your pay (7.65% of gross wages, to be matched by the employer) and paid to the gov't for social security, whether your social security number is valid or not. And, if you are undocumented, then you will never see ANY of that social security money that you are paying in (last I heard there was something like $50 billion in the social security coffers that is "unclaimed" or not associated with a valid number--most of it contributed by undocumented workers who will never receive an entitlement based on what they paid in). I suppose many people think that folks aren't paying taxes because they may or may not file a tax return, but if all the low-wage undocumented workers filed tax returns, they would for the most part be getting refunds on their taxes, not paying more in than was already taken out of their pay. Exactly what taxes are undocumented workers not paying?

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
You really should go to this linked site-Center for Immigration Studies
The taxes paid argument is spread around and around and it just doesn't hold water.
Quote:
" If an employer is properly classifying you as an employee..."
HELLO. It's illegal to hire an illegal worker. He will NOT be properly classified. All employees must meet the requirements of form I-9 from the U.S. Dept. of Justice. This is required and signed by every employer regarding every new hire.

GUNSLNGA previously stated.....
If that were the way it really works, I'd drive my pick up down to texas and bring them across myself.

I believe in America as it's supposed to be, I was in Germany when the wall came down, I was in the Desert Storm Campaign, I lived all over the world, I speak Two languages and have a working knowledge of several others. I think any person going into other cultures/countries should be able to meet those people on they're grounds. I did not expect the Germans and French to know English, I tried to converse in they're native tongue unless they said they could speak english.

xenophobe
One entry found for xenophobe.

Main Entry: xe·no·phobe
Pronunciation: 'ze-n&-"fOb, 'zE-
Function: noun
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary
: one unduly fearful of what is foreign and especially of people of foreign origin

Once again the" know it all" and the" my way is the only way" parties have me pegged with they're sterotypical bullshit. Maybe I should cry to some soft shell organisation and whine that I have been unfairly profiled by a larger majority. I also saw the creative editing you did on my post, you guys are too cute, when your education, common sense, and failure of beliefs are gone, name calling is always a great idea, bravo!!!!

domtizr wrote:unfair labor pratices, isn't that why workers form unions, not sit around, complaining about someone else taking there job.

It's a bit different organizing a factory of workers and trying to organize small and indepedant businesses. But that does nothing to address this issue, do you know what is being discussed? The rest of that sentence is why some times people say things and out of the blue someone punches their clock.

gulliver wrote:


http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
You really should go to this linked site-Center for Immigration Studies
The taxes paid argument is spread around and around and it just doesn't hold water.
Quote:
" If an employer is properly classifying you as an employee..."
HELLO. It's illegal to hire an illegal worker. He will not be properly classified. All employees must meet the requirements of form I-9 from the U.S. Dept. of Justice. This is required and signed by every employer.

Gulliver, uh oh, do we actually agree on a subject??? I think sooooo

Lurkist, you are saying some of us should lose our jobs ( lost by being swarmed by competition that does not have to play by the same set of rules ), because they are such good people. I know you aren't; I'm kidding. Thats an unfair argument and you know it.
This is where the xenophobia and racist accusations start.

I understand the issue isn't all roses. I did see a select group of Mexican immigrants. If they made it to my clinic, ten they by definition were legal aliens with green cards.
My point is more of a utilitarian one. They are here. We are not going to round them up and deport them. They are benefiting our economy. So, instead of being frustrated with what we want (but can't have), lets make the best of it. Let's figure out some legal working status (collect taxes), plug the border so everyone trying to immigrate will have to play by our rules, and put a welcoming face on it.
At the end of the day, we are all going to be a bit browner. They can bring their culture (we all did) but they can be assimilated and speak our language and become part of our culture while our culture will become a bit more Hispanic.

But, gulliver, how is maintaining a permanent underclass going to help you from losing your job to people who will do it cheaper? Isn't the solution to that (like the AFL-CIO realized a few years ago) to legalize the undocumented workforce so that employers aren't using undocumented labor to undercut wages? If we keep the status quo and everyone remains out of status, then wages and working conditions will continue to stagnate. If you legalize people, then they will be able to vote with their feet and won't accept jobs with crap salaries and benefits--but right now they don't have much of a choice. I know people can't seriously believe that the solution is to try to deport 11 million people. I mean, I was at the march here in D.C. on Monday and there were several hundred thousand people--you couldn't even get a few hundred people on the Metro let alone try to deport them.

gunslga-- What I was trying to get across with my post about what makes people come here in the first place is that we shouldn't just take the approach that we are going to villify folks and say they are a bunch of criminals because they violated civil immigration laws. That's too one-dimensional. Most people, if given a REAL choice, would prefer to stay in their own countries and earn a living there. But, to a large extent, our Latin American foreign policy over the last half a century has made that impossible for them. Is it therefore 100% their fault that they leave their country to find a better life, or are we at least partly to blame for that?

jim wrote:a bunch of stuff

I simply wanted enforcement of the law. The problem is not the immigrant help, it is the ass wipe that hires them. I am not a racist. I do not think you can export 11 million people. I think very few people will steal into an environment where there is no work to be had. Obviously few people here can understand this because few people here feel the threat of loosing their jobs to these people. It is the height of elitism. "Surely no jobs exists worth having if a mere K-12 education was the extent of the schooling, Hmph!" To me ,in the Lurkists last post, he just looked down to me and said about me and my workers "let them eat cake". These impacts aren't just the rustle of the melting pot being stirred and settling to some uniform consistency through the pages of a history book. They can happen fast. Everyone I know went "illegal" because they could. It's greed. Hell they are even brokering jobs for whole crews of illegals because they can still make bank off of discounted contracts. You really can't have a clue to hold to these talking points.

Gulliver,
If all immigrants are somehow legalized (brought into legal compliance and documented) so that the option of employers to hire cheaper undocumented workers was taken away, would that level the playing field for you? Wouldn't you and your competitors being vying for the same pool of workers who would be demanding equal pay?
Trying to make it in your line of work sounds tough. I empathize. Should I be in your shoes I might have a similar take on the problem. However, you mention one of the major malfunctions of immigration.

I simply wanted enforcement of the law

Immigration policy was never written to take into account the impact of the economy that Mexican immigration is having, and current poicy can't respond to the needs of the economy in any real time to address, for instance, problems that you are having to deal with. In short, an overhaul of immigration policy is needed so that the law can be enforced.

the lurkist wrote:current poicy can't respond to the needs of the economy in any real time to address, for instance, problems that you are having to deal with. In short, an overhaul of immigration policy is needed so that the law can be enforced.

So in the mean time, while we wait for the corrupt politicians on both sides to try and figure out how to both make money and get re-elected from this, they continue to flow across the border, abuse our systems, and committ all types of crime, and thats acceptable untill we get them social security numbers and drivers licenses, is this the jist of it????