RRC Archives

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:23 pm**

Feanor007 wrote:thanks for the heads up, i was thinking of taking my bro and sis there on saturday, but will go some where else, i would have hated to hike in only to find a group. wish people would give others heads up more often

Hello RRG Community. Just wanted to give a heads-up that there will be a group of about 14 at Global Village on Sunday the 26th.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:31 pm**

Sandy wrote:Please note, I am NOT condoning large groups,. I think the obvious solution is to do multiple trips. Maybe it costs more time and/or money, but we are stewards of the land and we can't break rules simply because it's inconvenient. Paul, this should be the last time there is a group this size hitting one crag. No question about it.

as much as i'd like to say it is and will be the last time, it won't be. next weekend there will be two more trips, one saturday, the other sunday. saturday is the other half of the youth climbing team: the groups have already been split once to get size down. i'm sure they're planning trips for the fall, too.

the truth is these trips are going to run with or without me. granted, it'd be much more inconvient for them to find someone else but they would. i'm going because: a) it's easiest for them b) i still know staff and i like them c) i figure i can make them aware about a lot of stuff going on around here, not just the kids but the university and staff.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm**

SikMonkey wrote:Hell, those copperheads won't bother you. If they are in your way, just pick them up and move them over. The real danger lies when someone freaks out upon seeing one and takes a leap off of one of those cliffs or tries to pet one.

Mj

well, i'm afraid of accidentally stepping on one. when i was there last year, i'd see one and take care to avoid it and think i was all good....until i saw three more that i hadn't noticed before right next to where i had just put my foot.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:33 pm**

Paul3eb wrote:a few questions (and they aren't meant to accuse anyone or point fingers or anything, they're just questions for pondering):

how many people are at military, left flank, roadside, motherload, drive-by, etc any given weekend?
what constitutes a group? all the people in one car? so if we were to take fifty people in ten cars, the group would be ok?
what is the purpose of the guideline? what's it trying to accomplish? is adherence to the guideline the purpose or is the intent/goal of the guideline the purpose?

at the load on saturday i was part of a group of about ten. we drove separate for the most part. weren't we a group outside the guidelines? granted, we weren't on dbnf land. but the impact was still had.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:41 pm**

Paul, does the University have permits to guide at the RRG on FS land? If so, they are violating the guidelines with group size. If they don't have permits, they are also violating the guidelines (permits are required for guided groups). Either way, this needs to stop. I am glad you are involved with this large group, since I know you will bring up access and impact issues, but it needs to stop. Whoever is in charge of these activities needs to be made aware of the FS guidelines and either get private landowner permission to do these types of trips someplace else, or cancel the program altogether. This should NOT be happening on FS land. Period. We all speak of self policing, now is the time to do it.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:42 pm**

the rest of us also need to limit our groups sizes. Walk the walk.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:44 pm**

Sandy wrote:Walk the walk.

That is the tricky part, as we all break at least a few of the "rules", and we can't seem to agree on which of the rules it is ok to break (and who can break them), and which ones that are not to be broken.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:48 pm**

You are absolutely right, Wes. And we all need to change that. "Be the change you seek."

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:50 pm**

Someone needs to inform the universities what the regulations are so they can operate within them. This might put their programs at risk as it will be more expensive but it would handle the problem on their end where it belongs and not put the community to task for its ethics.

Posted: **Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:50 pm**

Sandy wrote:the rest of us also need to limit our groups sizes. Walk the walk.

that's part of my point when i posted about the load: why is that ok and the other not?

the permit stuff: thanks for the heads up. it does look like they might one and i'm not 100% if they do. i'll look into it. i wish the local offices had email.. anyone know about that?

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