Just kidding. Some things he does with such ease and it is really really hard for me, and some things I do with ease that are super powerful for him. I guess what I am trying to say is that grading routes or boulder problems is very subjective, and by the way the scoop and bum boy are both V1-.excessive down rating
In case no one knows, I am about 6 foot 7 with shoes 6,6 and a half without shoes. My main climbing partner is 5 foot 4, and we both climb about the same grade. Come climb with the two of us and you will really learn that there is two ways to do ever move, except at the red because all the moves are short. Just kidding. Some things he does with such ease and it is really really hard for me, and some things I do with ease that are super powerful for him. I guess what I am trying to say is that grading routes or boulder problems is very subjective, and by the way the scoop and bum boy are both V1-.
Just kidding. Some things he does with such ease and it is really really hard for me, and some things I do with ease that are super powerful for him. I guess what I am trying to say is that grading routes or boulder problems is very subjective, and by the way the scoop and bum boy are both V1-.Living the dream
The thing I like most is going to a new area without a guidebook and to just look up at something and say, "yeah, let's climb that, it looks like fun!" and keep moving along looking for what is good and fun, not how hard it is.
But, once you have been climbing at an area more than a few times or it becomes your backyard crag, you get over the initial "ooooohs and aaahhhhs" and get more focused on the grades and doing specific routes in a grade.
But, once you have been climbing at an area more than a few times or it becomes your backyard crag, you get over the initial "ooooohs and aaahhhhs" and get more focused on the grades and doing specific routes in a grade.
"But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads?" – Lord Byron
I read somewhere that there were 5 main factors that determined the grade of a route:
1. The size of the holds
2. The distance between them
3. The angle of the rock
4. The availability of rests
5. Other factors such as: power, endurance, techniques required, sustainedness, etc.
The best thing to do would be to climb MANY routes of many grades, of many styles, and then compare the route in question to those other routes. Once you've climbed several hundred routes of varying difficulties and styles it should be easier to compare it to a route of a similar nature since you will have a larger database to choose from. Of course, this process will not be perfect and it should therefore be based on a consensus and open to change.
Someone might find a new kneebar rest in the crux and in this case it might be appropriate to downgrade the route. Or, maybe a rest jug broke off of the route and it could have a letter added to the grade. Also, some routes might feel easier once they get cleaned up a little bit with the removal of lichen, chalk on the holds, tick marks, etc.
I think that as long as a route is within 2 letter grades then it shouldn't be a big deal to most climbers if the route is stiff or soft for the grade. Every climber has different strengths and weaknesses, good days and bad days.
Just as each climbing area has its own ethical standards it usually has its own grading standards as well. For example, many traditional areas like Devil's Tower base the grade on the hardest move of a pitch even if it is sustained and it stays at that difficulty the whole way. The Red, on the other hand, often factors the endurance (or power endurance) into the equation on many routes due to the steep nature of the rock even though the crux moves themselves might not be that hard. Of course, there will always be exceptions and you can't please everybody. Get out there and climb. Have fun.
1. The size of the holds
2. The distance between them
3. The angle of the rock
4. The availability of rests
5. Other factors such as: power, endurance, techniques required, sustainedness, etc.
The best thing to do would be to climb MANY routes of many grades, of many styles, and then compare the route in question to those other routes. Once you've climbed several hundred routes of varying difficulties and styles it should be easier to compare it to a route of a similar nature since you will have a larger database to choose from. Of course, this process will not be perfect and it should therefore be based on a consensus and open to change.
Someone might find a new kneebar rest in the crux and in this case it might be appropriate to downgrade the route. Or, maybe a rest jug broke off of the route and it could have a letter added to the grade. Also, some routes might feel easier once they get cleaned up a little bit with the removal of lichen, chalk on the holds, tick marks, etc.
I think that as long as a route is within 2 letter grades then it shouldn't be a big deal to most climbers if the route is stiff or soft for the grade. Every climber has different strengths and weaknesses, good days and bad days.
Just as each climbing area has its own ethical standards it usually has its own grading standards as well. For example, many traditional areas like Devil's Tower base the grade on the hardest move of a pitch even if it is sustained and it stays at that difficulty the whole way. The Red, on the other hand, often factors the endurance (or power endurance) into the equation on many routes due to the steep nature of the rock even though the crux moves themselves might not be that hard. Of course, there will always be exceptions and you can't please everybody. Get out there and climb. Have fun.
"Those iron spikes you use have shortened the life expectancy of the Totem Pole by 50,000 years."
--A Navaho elder
--A Navaho elder
Two cents...
I think a factor to be included should be the amount of time that the grade has stood. While newly bolted routes should be subject to scrutiny and consensus, routes that have been graded for more than x number of y (where x determines a specific time period and y determines the amount of years/climbs) should be left alone.
The exception I see might be if the route drastically changes due to holds breaking or growing or some other feature changing event that 'completely' alters the character of a section. Debate the time-weathered classics and their grades all you want, but leave the official status alone. After so long the holds are chalked, the beta is out there and a variety of climbers with individual styles have been on 'em enough to establish a grade (and I agree that some routes just might be soft or hard for the grade, that's just the way it is).
Downgrading seems to be a favorite pastime for those who climb all the time and have wired the moves; but a grade needs to be a guide for all climbers, not stroke an ego. Instead of ragging on the grade, state that the route gets easier the more you work it. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?
And while I'm here, I think that the grading should reflect the individual characterisitics of the region. You can't compare apples and oranges. The gorge is what it is and shouldn't be aligned with another area. Compare it all you want for fun, but the gorge is a distinct climbing microcosm and should be viewed and judged as such. It's not Joshua Tree, Seneca, New River, Squamish or The Gunks. It's the Red. It's the Gorge.
I think a factor to be included should be the amount of time that the grade has stood. While newly bolted routes should be subject to scrutiny and consensus, routes that have been graded for more than x number of y (where x determines a specific time period and y determines the amount of years/climbs) should be left alone.
The exception I see might be if the route drastically changes due to holds breaking or growing or some other feature changing event that 'completely' alters the character of a section. Debate the time-weathered classics and their grades all you want, but leave the official status alone. After so long the holds are chalked, the beta is out there and a variety of climbers with individual styles have been on 'em enough to establish a grade (and I agree that some routes just might be soft or hard for the grade, that's just the way it is).
Downgrading seems to be a favorite pastime for those who climb all the time and have wired the moves; but a grade needs to be a guide for all climbers, not stroke an ego. Instead of ragging on the grade, state that the route gets easier the more you work it. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?
And while I'm here, I think that the grading should reflect the individual characterisitics of the region. You can't compare apples and oranges. The gorge is what it is and shouldn't be aligned with another area. Compare it all you want for fun, but the gorge is a distinct climbing microcosm and should be viewed and judged as such. It's not Joshua Tree, Seneca, New River, Squamish or The Gunks. It's the Red. It's the Gorge.
Pick myself up, stop lookin' back.
Grand Funk Railroad
Grand Funk Railroad
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anticlmber
- Posts: 3393
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Ascentionist
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Then the route would definitely be harder for me. I don't have a blue alien. Or would that make it easier for me? Maybe the blue alien wouldn't be blocking a sweet fingerlock so it would be more like 5.8 for me. Not sure.goodguy wrote: I think that the finishing moves on the arete above the last Blue alien that is placed are probably the crux.
There is no TEAM in I