Let's remember back to the Regan administration and it's wonderful EPA folks who figured out that (dum, dum DUMMMMM!) Trees Cause Polution!discojett wrote:My favorite is the Logging for Water Bill recently introduced. It seems that some brilliant lawmakers here think that if you cut down the trees at the headwaters of the watersheds, then there is more water for the people to use to wash their cars, water the lawns, basically waste. No trees=more water. Brilliant. Trees are such an eyesore anyway.
Earth
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captain static
- Posts: 2438
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:05 pm
On the alternative energy forefront, here are some websites to ponder:
http://www.frank.germano.com/index.htm
http://www.cheniere.org
The continued "reliance" on fossil fuels is just a game for power and control.
http://www.frank.germano.com/index.htm
http://www.cheniere.org
The continued "reliance" on fossil fuels is just a game for power and control.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
Merrick;
If you want an engineer's approach that really addresses the problem, make it all a closed system. Ration every industrial company a certain amount of water. From that point, no more water enters the factory, no water leaves. They can use it for whatever they want, but they are responsible for cleaning it and using it again.
Spoon;
Solar is a nice idea, but there just not enough falling on us (per unit area). Although, good news, they just had a breakthrough in solar cell tech that will allow much more efficient cells.
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Arc ... -cell.html
This will be nice, but nuclear is the way to go. The problem will then be, with so much cheap energy available, global warming will be a valid concern!
M.
If you want an engineer's approach that really addresses the problem, make it all a closed system. Ration every industrial company a certain amount of water. From that point, no more water enters the factory, no water leaves. They can use it for whatever they want, but they are responsible for cleaning it and using it again.
Spoon;
Solar is a nice idea, but there just not enough falling on us (per unit area). Although, good news, they just had a breakthrough in solar cell tech that will allow much more efficient cells.
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Arc ... -cell.html
This will be nice, but nuclear is the way to go. The problem will then be, with so much cheap energy available, global warming will be a valid concern!
M.
No chalkbag since 1995.
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captain static
- Posts: 2438
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:05 pm
Nuclear is just another ploy to continue centralized control of energy by government and multinational corporations. Buckminster Fuller once suggested connecting the power grid of the Americas to that of Asia and Europe across the Bering Strait. This would effectively double the amount of electricity available by fully utilizing off-peak generation.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
capt.:
I'm not real big on conspiracy theory (see other thread). Private reactors are OK with me. Fuller's suggestion leaves two big problems: 1) it creates an even greater incentive and potential for burning lots of fossil fuel, and 2) line losses over such distances. Also, if you're really concerned about centralized control by gov't and multinat'l corps., a world power grid doesn't necessarily help.
M.
I'm not real big on conspiracy theory (see other thread). Private reactors are OK with me. Fuller's suggestion leaves two big problems: 1) it creates an even greater incentive and potential for burning lots of fossil fuel, and 2) line losses over such distances. Also, if you're really concerned about centralized control by gov't and multinat'l corps., a world power grid doesn't necessarily help.
M.
No chalkbag since 1995.
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captain static
- Posts: 2438
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:05 pm
I never said anything about conspiracy and don't want to get into a big political argument here. There are a lot of energy alternatives, more research and support of alternatives is needed, through both large and small commercial interests. Nuclear leaves a bad taste in my mouth for two reasons, first from what happened here locally with Zimmer Plant debacle and second from the ties between nuclear power generation and the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
Anytime you have a massive energy source, you will have ties to weapons. Unfortunately, this is human nature. Even with solar power, you must deal with SCIN and his giant magnifying glass. The Zimmer plant debacle was a management problem, although I, too am concerned about those issues as well as issues that might come about from poor engineering. Again, though, if you want lots of energy on demand, potential catastrophe will be proportional. It's the nature of the beast. To me it's neither good nor evil, and I advocate going forward, but with extreme care (definitely with more care than in the past).
No chalkbag since 1995.
i am with kato on this one. i think nuclear has many distinct advantages over fossil fuels. the number one in my head is the fact that the waste from a reactor is solid and small and can be stored where as the waste from fossil fuels goes into the air and then into my lungs. not good.
i am down with solar, geo thermal and all that but unless it gets much more efficient or energy consumption goes way down it doesn't seem like a solution for the masses.
still there should definately be tax incentives for building passive solar houses and such.
i am down with solar, geo thermal and all that but unless it gets much more efficient or energy consumption goes way down it doesn't seem like a solution for the masses.
still there should definately be tax incentives for building passive solar houses and such.
Back from the Dead!
My Senior year in college I had a project in my Engineering Econ class to do cost comparisons, amortization, return on investment, etc, etc... I chose to compare buying one's electricity vs. solar power vs. wind power. A bit of research identified locations in the US ideal for wind and or sun collection and used my electric bill for the part. Assuming a new house was built attached to the existing power grid (otherwise you're looking at $20,000+ to run lines, depending on where you are) I figured out that the wind power generators would pay off the fastest after....hmm...I think it was like 12 years maybe. My numbers were run based on the fact that the power company must buy back excess power generated by people on their system (about 3.5 years ago, so I don't rememebr all the vitals). W/o being tapped into the grid, the payback period would be closer to 20 years I think, since you're not getting the extra $$. Solar and wind energy collector/generator technology could have improved since I did my project, or, at the very least come down in price, making the whole venture more attractive with a faster break-even point. The real upshot is, after you pass the break-even time period, you begin to make a profit by selling all the excess energy generated. Needless to say my project sold me on the notion of building a self-powered house when I get around to building my own...if I ever find a place I want to stay for 15+ years (I'm a wandering soul) 
. Either way, in the right setting and with the right equipment both solar and wind power are feasible options and less expensive than buying electricity over time.
. Either way, in the right setting and with the right equipment both solar and wind power are feasible options and less expensive than buying electricity over time."I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."
D. H. Lawrence
D. H. Lawrence
I think a solar/wind powered house would be super cool, but what happens when your on rrc.com at night and the wind dies down? Or worse yet, what if the rrc.com server is run from your house?? It boggles the mind...
One of the things on my List of Things To Do That Will Make Me Unbelievably Rich and Famous is to make a good way to store electricity. Current battery technology is pretty coarse. Make a breakthrough in this area and retire.
One of the things on my List of Things To Do That Will Make Me Unbelievably Rich and Famous is to make a good way to store electricity. Current battery technology is pretty coarse. Make a breakthrough in this area and retire.