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Ultra - sorry, no hard feelings, I just can't defend Josh after "getting to know" him so well this summer. I can see where you and Danny are coming from, I just suggested maybe you should take him under your wing because you can relate. (ok it was harsher than that, but that's the bottom line)

No offense taken haas. I would take him under my wing seeing as how derilicts are attracted to me (birds of a feather...) but I am out here and he is not. So - all of this conflict is strictly cerebral at this point. If he wants to ride his bike to Nevada...maybe. Needless to say I was that jackass once upon a time. So cut him some slack and maybe help out with the thumpun yadda yadda yadda.

Ultra wrote: If you catch him stealing. Beat his ass. At this point in his life its probably the only thing he will listen to. After youo draw boundries about what is acceptable behavior then you will be able to work with him and he with you. He has to learn that there are fences around the playground.

good luck

That may be the best description of "healthy boundaries" I have heard in sometime.

I agree with Danny and Ultra on several of their points.I really didn't start growing up until about 9 years ago. I am a recovering liar, cheat and thief at many different levels( and I have paid for it ) But, that doesn't mean you encourage pathology. Don't steal. Don't endanger other people. Don't ignore advice from people who know. (or we'll have to carry your broken body down the hill)
If you can't follow these simple rules you get kicked off the island like charlie said.

I've been climbing with him a few times and I've been around him at Miguel's a lot. He is very sketchy and kinda creepy, but I think people do need to give him a chance. I'm sure he's a nice guy. But I'm thinking he's had a rough background and you just need to watch out for him.

If he starts listening to people and taking advice, then I think he would be a lot better of a climber. He's super strong, just really sketchy. I would never belay him or let him belay me...but for you brave people , go for it and make sure you keep an eye on him.

[quote="kentuckysarah"]I'm sure he's a nice guy.

Isn't this what they said about Dahmer?

well i guess if i need a rope gum ill just take him out and tell him i assume no responsibility for your idiotic climbing ways

kentuckysarah wrote:I've been climbing with him a few times and I've been around him at Miguel's a lot. He is very sketchy and kinda creepy, but I think people do need to give him a chance. I'm sure he's a nice guy. But I'm thinking he's had a rough background and you just need to watch out for him.

If he starts listening to people and taking advice, then I think he would be a lot better of a climber. He's super strong, just really sketchy. I would never belay him or let him belay me...but for you brave people , go for it and make sure you keep an eye on him.

rest assured Sarah. You are correct in that you are not the one to go out in the woods alone with him climbing (lets be smart here) So there is this thing called "positive peer pressure" if exerted in the proper way it can have a dramatic effect on his life. But you must be concience of the negative possibilities. If you are teaching him to belay. Then have someone watching him to make sure that he doesn't screw up and kill someone. If he doesn't like someone watching him then politely tell him its gonna be this way or an ass whippin. He says no. Then give it to him. With a quickness!!

Any way. In the Military the first thing they teach you is to not question. You must do as you are told. To get you to that point you must be broken down. There are several different ways to do this. One is negative reinforcement with positive praise. That is my personal favorite. It really works and works equally well with men or animals.

try this out and see if it works. good luck

Ultra,
Have you even met this kid? You sure seem to talk with some knowledge about his psychological profile and the way in which we should go about setting him on the "right track." Is your only knowledge of him based on what you read in the "sketchy stories about Josh thread"? Assuming you do know him, how are you in a position to determine what is right for him and those who come in contact with him? If your only experience in counseling is based on personal experience and what brought you to where you are in life, I might hold back on the suggestions, because frankly, you sound like a dick. I don't think anyone wants suggestions on how to get him to that point. Thanks anyway though.

To add to the list, I met Josh at Muir valley and belayed for him on a recently bolted line. He spent a long time (45 -90 min. approx.) on the route and incorporated some very interesting techniques. However, he seemed utterly unable to take advice at all. He nearly hit me and my dog with rocks he had kicked off, and refused to announce. I never climbed with him again. He seemed a little shady.

No Jordan, you seem shady. It's people like you that bring your dog to the crag and let them run wild and don't tie them up and we have to deal with making sure we don't hit them with rocks. If I yell "rock", is your dog going to understand that? I didn't think so. And further more, what were you doing climbing at Muir Valley? You weren't on the clock working were you? Very shady indeed.

What if your dog's name is "Rock!"
What about a new thread or hijack this dead horse and list names you shouldn't give your kids or dogs if you rock climb:
"Take"
"Slack"
"Off Belay"
Are there less obvious ones?

Oh,anyway I related this thread to my friends tha also climbed with Josh that weekend a month ago and one of them related a similar story to the one above where my friend lead the route and Jordan folowed and it was getting dark and Josh did not know how to clean the anchor on a sport route and My friend was yelling instructionns to him in the dark.. I think he left Josh up there.