RRC Archives

Wes wrote:512OW, I am so dissapointed that you didn't catch where I got that rank from. Guess you aren't as up on your old school rap as you want everyone to think.

And your rhetoric is just as tired and played as it was four years ago when you actually climbed.

Wes

Sir Mix-A-Lot. The JR Ewing of Seattle. Yes, dear, I got it. I just like that JR was a womanizer who ran shit, and survived a gunshot. In short, JR was a gangsta.

And even when I don't actually climb, I make you look like a gumby.

"The man you love to hate" just didn't sound as good as "the JR Ewing of Cinci." Glad you like it. I got a couple of his songs from the iTunes store the other day. Posse's on Broadway, No holds barred, and I'm your new God. Always thought he had a kinda unique style, but maybe I am just showing my lack old school rap and/or poor taste.

And I am a gumby, so that isn't hard to do.

Wes

I dig him too. He did have a cool style. You should check out Swass, and if they have them, Buttermilk Biscuits and Bramelo.

I think this ethical scale is a sliding one. It really is meaningless at the level of 5.6 lead climbers. If you get up the thing without falling off it you can call it an onsight. Big fucking deal. But at the level of 5.11 climbing it starts to make a difference. I've noticed that a lot of the newer high rated sport climbs at Muir that they're putting that first bolt way up in the air. I think that says, "Don't get on this unless you can climb this level." To stickclip at that level brings the difference of redpoint v. pinkpoint into question but most people that climb that level with a stickclip would call it a send or redpoint... but some wouldn't. Once you get up into the elite rankings it's a really small group of people we're talking about. If you climb 5.13 and up anything you've got a small peer group to communicate with and as a group you decide the rules. I sent a 5.6 sport lead this weekend and I'm calling it an onsight, dammit! And after that I sent a harder route! Yeah! Go me! I'm so fucking proud I could... do something nasty... to your mother.

Seriously, though, I find this whole concept of difficulty ratings, especially as it works in the higher levels, to be incredibly interesting.

And the talk about getting out into the woods at its many enjoyment levels (let's face it, a good hiker that knows what he's doing will quickly find an animal trail to follow and will do less damage than a line of hungover sport climbers* stomping up a path) is great. I love cutting down from the crags to the creek and tracing the deer paths along the water. You have to duck a little more but the flora is different from the main paths.

Oops. Gotta go. Dammit. So many threads, so little time.

*or a line of drunk trad climbers. Or stoned bouldererers. Whatever.

You'll never see a line of drunk trad climbers. Hungover drunk trad climbers, maybe, but we drink till we can't walk.

The American Safe Climbing Association recommends a high first bolt and close 2nd bolt. The overwhelming majority of ground falls occur at the 2nd and 3rd bolts. This is a fact. I'm constantly surprised how many routes are poorly bolted when it is so easy to do it safely. After all, isn't the point of a bolt for safety? They're supposed to keep you off the ground, right? Even if the climbing is easy on the run outs you never know when a hold might break (especially at the Red, and especially on easier sections of climbing). Many climbing areas have first bolts much much MUCH higher than here at the Red. There you must have your shit together and remain alert.

squeezindlemmon wrote:

haas wrote:Visual impact? You've got to be kidding me.

I hope you don't mean me by that YOU in that sentence. We don't place the first bolt uber high bec we expect everyone to stick clip like it's the norm; we put it uber high to comply with the guidelines.

Just out of curiousity....why comply with any "guidelines" if Muir is a privately owned place?

Especially guidelines that seem to, in this "in over your head" world we live in, promote danger?

Landowners say so.

Good reason.

I and Steve S. have bolted two routes, and currently have anchors on a third... before we started putting up routes we decided on a few guidelines we would use (concidering some of the shit we've seen over the years), one is the 12 & 12 rule. First bolt is at least 12ft off the ground, all routes are at least 12ft apart.

I've found that to be a really good guideline with little room for argument.

To 512OW: Shut the hell up sport n00b, your quickdraws suffer from a chronic dust corrosion problem.