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So why doesn't someone add another bolt to that route? It's just stupid to have a third bolt that can lead to being decked if you fail to get it. You've gotta expect the possiblity of decking if you miss the second clip but that should never be the case on the third bolt. Yeah, yeah, one can be all smug about how a good climber would've made the clip but whoever set up the route either wasn't thinking about failure or enjoys the idea their bolt placement might kill another climber.

Then again I'm not familiar with the route and there might not be another place for a bolt so I'll shut up now.

about my "serious mistake" comment, I was just passing on info - which I think I had a disclaimer in there saying I wasn't there.

As far as safety goes...after climbing with Hamsco - even if he's not there, I can hear his voice of safety reason before getting on any climb:
"are you doubled back? I'm doubled back....where's your helmet? PUT DOWN THAT FLASK PUZO!!??"

"Oh, you're on that rope?"

--Fortunately heard before I left the ground because I tend to double check everything.

rhunt wrote:
if this isn't obvious to everyone then there needs to be a serious belay seminar at the Red!

NO DOUBT! There should be a seminar

I recently read about an accident where a climber was being lowered from a single pitch sport route and the belayer ran out of rope. It went screaming through the belay device and of course there was no way to stop it. (Sorry, can't recall now where or when or how the climber fared.) This is an easily avoidable mistake when you are unclear about the height of a route, but how many people routinely either tie a stopper knot or tie into the end of the rope when they are belaying on a single pitch climb? I know I don't. Should I at the Red? Are there any routes here where you should if you only have a 50m rope, or even a 60m rope?

I'm a little shocked by some of the belaying mistakes in this thread. Y'all need to check each other before taking off on routes.

Alan Evil wrote:So why doesn't someone add another bolt to that route? It's just stupid to have a third bolt that can lead to being decked if you fail to get it. You've gotta expect the possiblity of decking if you miss the second clip but that should never be the case on the third bolt. Yeah, yeah, one can be all smug about how a good climber would've made the clip but whoever set up the route either wasn't thinking about failure or enjoys the idea their bolt placement might kill another climber.

Then again I'm not familiar with the route and there might not be another place for a bolt so I'll shut up now.

Alan, in my limited sport climbing experience, I've noted a couple of routes where missing the third clip with slack out would mean decking. Usually there is a good reason for the bolt placement, but if not, I'm sure any FA would be happy to re-evaluate their route and move bolts if neccessary.

Sandy wrote:I recently read about an accident where a climber was being lowered from a single pitch sport route and the belayer ran out of rope. It went screaming through the belay device and of course there was no way to stop it. (Sorry, can't recall now where or when or how the climber fared.) This is an easily avoidable mistake when you are unclear about the height of a route, but how many people routinely either tie a stopper knot or tie into the end of the rope when they are belaying on a single pitch climb? I know I don't. Should I at the Red? Are there any routes here where you should if you only have a 50m rope, or even a 60m rope?

I'm a little shocked by some of the belaying mistakes in this thread. Y'all need to check each other before taking off on routes.

a 60m should be the standard at the red. I never tie a knot in the end of my rope because I don't get on the route unless I know for sure that my rope is long enough.

Oh and I use a 70m

Todd; "You know,....if you fall you are going to deck out!"

Me: "Yeah,...not tell me something I don't know."

What Todd said to me on the frist pitch of Afternoon Delight, in the New.

I try to be a little more diplomatic when I'm belaying. I'll usually say "I'd like you to get a piece in there." Hearing "you're in decking territory" when you are above your first and only piece and not finding any placements isn't exactly confidence inspiring! (Said to me on Looking Glass.)

on a similar note, when i see the rope behind someone's leg i always say

"mind your leg"

because it sounds a bit more calm, and the last thing i want to do is freak out my climber.