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Scin, I think you got trolled. Say it ain't so. Pigsteak takes down scin. Get up scin you can do it. Pigsteak has spread himself a little thin folks. He is attacking on three seperate fronts.
1. 5.12 climber are the only ones that count.(troll)
2. 5.8 trad is equal to 5.10 sport.
3. Jogging and running are different.

Hurt him, hurt him real bad....

Nope. Pigsteak is the real deal, JR. Believe it or not. He's a bitter old man.

There was sadness in mudville that day...........

who you talking to, you whippersnapper?

thanks Artsy, for elaborating on the different "scales" for placing gear versus clipping bolts...so now my next question..shouldn't top roping be given an even easier rating than sport climbing? seems to me TR'ing a route is the next level down....trad 5.8 equals sport lead 5.10 equals TR 5.9..is that fair?

I dare anyone to challenge me that jogging and running are the same thing...btw, I am a jogger, not a runner, before anyone gets their panties in an uproar...

Pigsteak I will challenge you!!!

I'm affraid what you do is called "power walking" you don't even deserve the term jogging.

jabba, my fine young prodigy...

pole smokers can't challenge such a fine specimen of aerobic machinery such as I...

but when you finally do send some of your 5.8 projects at jackson, come back and let's talk...the steak has spoken.

but jabba, you can comment on my other observation....when you top rope 5.10, does it feel as tough as the 5.9's you lead?

I sorry but can someone please explain to be the difference in ratings? I have been climbing for 10 years now and this is all new to me. I understand this sport changes all the time so i just want to keep up. So now the Yo-system is different for each type of climbing..ok so the old "the climb is rated based on it's hardest move or in the Red River Gorge case based on it overall pump"... is now out and now it depends on how the climb is protected...oh ok what ever feeds your ego.

what if I take a 5.8 trad route and get it completely wired. I know everymove and every placement, I can walk up and climb it in seconds placing and clipping gear as fast as I can hang and clip a quick draw to a bolt...what is the route now rated?

No one is proposing a new rating system the one in place works great. There is no ego stroking going on either. It's simply a different perspective on trad vs. sport. I personally would not hesitate to on-site any sport 5.10 but would think twice if it were a 5.10 trad on-site. It is more of a perceived difficulty than actual difficulty.

If you have it wired it will feel the same, no doubt about it.

I'm sorry guys, but until you lead trad you can't talk shit. Go lead Jim's Dyhedral (10a), No Return(9), Crack Attack(9), Where Lizards Dare(9), Doppler Effect (10b), Good Times( 8 ), Hand Job(9).....

Tell me those don't feel harder than *any* 5.10 sport routes, even some 11's. The people who are expressing their opinion aren't challenging or wanting to change the grading system but just telling how it feels to them. And they're allowed to cuz they've climbed on both sides of the fence.

Well said Artsay.