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I do not like their campaign for more money ($200,000) when there are other areas that could use the donations more, and would result in more climbing per-buck.

Potts... Just stay in your gym. That is way people like muir. It feels like the gym.

ynp1 wrote:I do not like their campaign for more money ($200,000) when there are other areas that could use the donations more, and would result in more climbing per-buck.

Potts... Just stay in your gym. That is way people like muir. It feels like the gym.

So don't donate.

Or donate to keep it open so that you Elite don't have to mix with the gumbies that are typically attracted to Muir...
Funny how I'm not the only one noticing the pissing and moaning coming from those who have the responsibility to support the community. *Hint* That includes Muir and the Webers

Also, I look forward to the identity theft threats that ensue. Only a matter of time before I have all the information I need.

potts wrote:With nothing more than a bar chart showing 2014/2015 projections to go on,...analyzed the Muir Valley strategic plan (of which they have no knowledge) and have declared it unworkable.

Funny you should say that.

potts wrote:... But, a climbing area, for the vast majority of climbers....and, I'm sure, thousands of others.

I really am very happy for all of Muir's enthusiastic supporters an hope they feel good about paying for what they value and what they've accomplished.

ynp1 wrote:I do not like their campaign for more money ($200,000) when there are other areas that could use the donations more, and would result in more climbing per-buck.

Potts... Just stay in your gym. That is way people like muir. It feels like the gym.

Whiny Peon, Please oh please find 350 acres with developed infrastructure and 400 climbs for $200k. We will pay more for more Miller Fork, with less potential for routes and not near the same quality of infrastructure.

Be happy that there is Muir, land of the gumbies. It fulfills a much needed purpose in the Red. I hope you pony up to keep those gumbies from hiking out to your epic and super dangerous elite crag.

sometimes it all just seems so embarrassing

Muir Valley is Great. Stop all the Hate.

i hate you

potts wrote:You live in a tiny little piece of the climbing world, Ray with a very narrow perspective as to what makes a stellar climbing area. Certainly, the climbs. And they don't get much better than those in the PMRP that you listed, or at the solarium,midnight surf, or the sanctuary at muir,for that matter. But, a climbing area, for the vast majority of climbers, is much more than just the stuff up there on the rock. At a truly stellar climbing destination, I don't worry about my oil pan being ripped out, or my car broken into, or peeing and pooping in a very un-LNT manner with the only "restroom" being the Lode stench pit, or having a medical emergency and no one to turn to like Muir's MVRG, or having some ill-behaved, noisy mutt pissing on my gear bag, or ... Yeah, Ray, your idea of stellar sure isn't mine and, I'm sure, thousands of others.

Potts, I don't live in a tiny little piece of the climbing world and I don't feel I have a narrow perspective to what makes a stellar climbing area. The Red has been one of the best sport climbing destinations in the country long before the manicured grounds of Muir. I climb in a lot of areas around the country and none of them have the Jurassic Park feel that Muir does yet they are still magnificent areas. I just don't think it should cost nearly $100K/year to create a great environment.

I guess it depends on your comfort level though. You sound like someone that doesn't get out much so I would expect you to desire an environment that duplicates what you are used to.

A good portion of the $100k/year was out of the Webers own pockets. It was their vision and their money to make Muir Valley into what it is. Just appreciate that and accept that while you may find it distasteful and a waste of money, it wasn't your vision, land, or money that created it.

Also, I was very happy to see this in the Webers answers:

"These extraordinary costs will not occur in years after 2015 so there is every reason to believe that total budgets will be considerably less in future years. Operating cost will be a function of how many climbers visit Muir Valley and what projects FOMV deems it is important to undertake."

This is a definite change in position from the past and I think it is much more realistic. I often have not seen eye to eye with the Webers and have never shied away from expressing my difference of opinion, but they have made a VERY, VERY generous offer to the community.

Miller Fork looks like a rip off in comparison.

Ok, ok.... everyone put their dicks away. We are moving off topic.

The webers have invested an enourmous amount of time, energy, and money into making Muir what it is today. Yes, it caters more to begining climbers, but it still houses lots of 5-star climbs for the big boys too. Because it is so heavily trafficked, it makes sense that they have added some infrastructure to support the increased load. The pit toilets and foot bridges will last for many years without too much upkeep and preventing LNT issues like at the lode or roadside.

Yes, $100k is a lot of money to raise each year, and that probably isnt very sustainable. With that said, I dont think it is realistic that the costs will remain that high when so much has already been paid toward lasting infrastructure. To ensure this, I think it is perfectly reasonable for the climbing community to get a budget and a plan for the upcoming years. If they want the community to foot the bill, we should know what we are paying for.

Even if you dont care for Muir or can do without it, a donation that keeps it open to climbing is in your best interest. Why? Because if it shuts down, then all those people are going to start dispursing to other areas (PMRP) and will start to impact access issues. It's like fighting cancer. You dont say, 'fuck it, its just the appendix let it get cancer and die'...... the cancer spreads to where it matters [to you].