RRC Archives

Shamis, I've never seen a trad route with hard to place gear that didn't already have that difficulty built into the grade. If you stop and place every 3 feet, making the route harder, then its no different than trying to stop and rest on the crux of a sport route. The route isn't harder just because you do it wrong.

Dustin, I still stand by it. Unless you add in a subjective fear factor, trad climbs generally aren't more difficult climbing than their sport counterparts.

Onsite solo some of the 11s in the Red, and I bet they feel just as hard as Twilight Zone.

Its all about skill sets. There was a day when I couldn't get up 5.11 sport routes... not even on toprope, but could do 5.11 cracks off the couch. Id have sworn then that sport climbing was harder.

I guess you're an outlier then. I doubt there is another person alive who would say there is a single 10+ sport route in the Red that even begins to approach the difficulty of old traditional 5.10s like Twilight Zone, Outer Space Direct, anything at Vedauwoo, the Gunks, Seneca, or even Midterm for that matter. I stand by my position that the last two decades have seen a massive wave of grade inflation in the 5.9-5.11 range by sport climbing weenie-lickers. I would see your point that it "depends on what you do," except that I'm a totally shitty sport climber myself.

Trad as a fad? Hell, climbing is a fad! Just look around... If it weren't were climbing gym birthday parties, Citibank, flying squirrel suits and 60 Minutes we'd just be another eccentric tribe on the verge of extinction, religiously holding onto our values of "purity" and "righteousness" as though we invented fire. (When actually it was just our chicken-shit homo sapien ass climbing to avoid becoming something else's dinner.)

And as for what is what, the only thing that matters is whether you're on the sharp end or not. I've seen 'em cry like little girls on both gear and bolts when past their "comfort" zone. Get in the game or go home!

Putting up with the Pig?! I love that guy, and I'm about to swing over his way... That heavy ass pack is breaking my back, I'm sick of blowing lichen out my nose from "others" ground up attempts and now that I have all the gear there's no fun in the collecting...

dustonian wrote:I don't think anyone is under the delusion that there is any threat of a "trad resurgence" in the RRG... except maybe Arty and SCIN after a couple coldies and vodka-soaked gummy bears. Traditional climbing here remains the desolate backwater it's more or less always tended to be... a novelty item that's nice to have around and killer for sweltering hot days, crowded fall weekends, or "rest" days when your skin and fingers are too destroyed from snapshackling.

Easy now, I was the only one not slurring my words that night. I never implied there was a trad resurgence in the Red. Art must have had too many gummies if he heard me say that. If I did agree to something you said, Art, it's because you confused me with your big words and I tend to shake my head a lot (it's a tick).

I did say I sold out before Kris though. Michelle used her prowess to show me the way and before I knew it I was bitching about long hikes and wearing Prana. Now instead of being a cool old bearded rough and tumble gear slinger taking weekend trips to Seneca I'm an anorexic pansie who occasionally struggles with thoughts of how cool it would be to have a big muscular chest.

SCIN wrote:Michelle used her prowess to show me the way and before I knew it I was bitching about long hikes and wearing Prana. Now instead of being a cool old bearded rough and tumble gear slinger taking weekend trips to Seneca I'm an anorexic pansie who occasionally struggles with thoughts of how cool it would be to have a big muscular chest.

Ruh-roh...... sounds familiar.... except the anorexic and Prana part.

rjackson wrote:Putting up with the Pig?!

The Pig is public enemy #1.

Ray is wise... From now on I'm only working out my pecs, and keeping one out of three meals down.

yet I sensed a restless dissatisfaction rising within him as he gnawed down that 7th gummy bear...

512OW wrote:There was a day when I couldn't get up 5.11 sport routes... not even on toprope, but could do 5.11 cracks off the couch. Id have sworn then that sport climbing was harder.

Exactly! Kris cut his teeth on RRG old school trad, and then he honed his sport skills. Learning to place your own gear after you are used to Kipster running ahead of you, putting bolts in the wall for you and cleaning the route before you touch it IS GOING TO BE QUITE A BIT MORE DIFFICULT. People, I have heard you complain like whipped curs if the route is dirty when you get on it. Talk about F-ing house broken.

SCIN wrote:Easy now, I was the only one not slurring my words that night.

I will admit to slurring my words. That tequila tasted like water.

SCIN wrote: I never implied there was a trad resurgence in the Red.

I was not talking about you when I was quoting people telling me about a trad resurgence. You coupled those two aspects of my post inadvertently. Trust me or go back and re-read.

SCIN wrote:I did say I sold out before Kris though.

That you did and that shit was funny!

SCIN wrote:Michelle used her prowess to show me the way and before I knew it . . . .

Let's see . . . climbing computer geek kicking around with his buddy and then hot girl shows up. Thank goodness she climbed or neither this site nor you, as we know you, would even exist.

SCIN wrote: . . . anorexic pansie who occasionally struggles with thoughts . . .

But these types climb harder trad and sport!