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I think a large obstacle with the non-freaks climbing 5.14 is boredom and big-picture syndrome. I can't imagine myself ever climbing a 5.14 because there is no way I can walk past stellar new cliffs and lines each weekend to attempt the same route over and over and over. Plus just looking at the big-picture and what it would really mean if I did finally send (not much) would make it even more difficult to continue trying.

If I do ever nail a 14 it'll be because I got wicked strong and was able to do it in less than 15 attempts.

JR, my reply got lost somewhere, but the gist was:

I must have worded my question poorly. I feel you ARE on the glide path to being able to climb a 14. Judging by your posts, I feel you have the desire and the capacity to get your teeth kicked in and keep coming back for more. Just because we dont send a higher grade every season doesn't mean we are not improving at climbing.

Its funny, the talented ones never think they are talented.

Ray, you are crazy if you don't think you will have sent one in the next 5 years. And i agree, it will be less than 15 tries.

Now come boulder with us this winter and help us get piss strong.

toad857 wrote:Just because you're in a gym doesn't mean it's "training". Some of my most involved projects and proudest sends were on plastic. In fact, a lot of gym climbers refuse to train because it's boring as hell.

You are not wrong. You're just not right.

Last time I checked climbing in a gym is practice. But sure, it is all a game that we made up. So why not? Why not make indoor sends just as important. They feel important to me.

O wait. You think training is doing pullups. Shit man you are 100% correct. BORING!!!! Hella boring....

there's no such thing as practice. all of life is the real thing.

I don't think you could claim that everyone can do 13 let alone 14. I know it'll take an immense amount of training for me to do 13.

No, not everyone can climb A 5.14, but pretty much everyone can climb harder than they do.

If you take a random group of RRG climbers with the same (several years, let's say 6-7) of experience, who spent those years "just climbing" frequently and regularly, some (few) will have plateaued at 5.10, some have plateaued at 5.11 (a lot), 5.12 (also a lot), or 5.13 ( fewer than at 5.12 or 5.11), and some have reached 5.14 (only a few individuals).

I firmly believe that those who have naturally plateaued at 5.13 (and quite likely some of those who have plateaued at 5.12) are capable of climbing A 5.14 with some determination and training.

I do not believe that those who have naturally plateaued at 5.10/5.11 are capable of climbing 5.14, but I do believe that they are capable of working up to A 5.11/5.12. It doesn't matter whether they plateaued at their level due to mental issues or physical issues, as long as they are willing to work on those weak areas, they could progress.

For me personally, 5.14 seems incomprehensible, and very unlikely to happen, given my time constraints and age. But 5.13 seems within the realm of possibility at least. I have bolt-to-bolted a few 5.12c's, and came close to sending after 3-4 tries. And if 5.12c is doable, then why not 5.12d, I have tried a couple, not impossible... And if 5.12d is doable, then why not 5.13a? But I can also remember the time when I was just working through 5.11s, and 5.12a seemed like a very hard but just-possibly-attainable goal, while 5.13 seemed somewhere in the clouds, remote and incomprehensible. And now I am one of those people who believes that A 5.12 is a very attainable goal for most climbers.

So perspective changes, based on where you are standing. I can see how, if you are one of the 5.14 climbers who got there simply by climbing for many years, working on routes that were progressively harder, but not really doing anything "special", other than being yourself, you think everyone else can do it, too.

Yall are such downers. It wasn't that long ago that only a handful of people in the whole world could climb 14a and now we have locals climbing 15a, and more people than you can imagine climbing 14 every fall day at the red. If this question would have been asked 15 years ago people would not have even responded because of the absurdity of the question, but I am going to bet that in 15 more years most people will believe the answer is an obvious YES.

Andrew, Im backing your play, as if that wasnt obvious. When I started climbing, finding someone who had done "a" 13 was rare. Nowadays, not so much.

Personally, I feel its because we have better information now, which leads me to think just a few years down the road, will there be enough information to get the average ability climber to a 14?

HELL NO!
As Kipp refers to and I’ll expound on just line up a bunch of 8 year olds on the playground. Tell them to run. There will be the one at the top who NATURALLY kick everyone else’s ass in addition to a few more frontrunners. Then there will be the majority in a massive pile in the middle, and of course we have those trailing further in the back too. It would likely turn out to look like that good old Normal Distribution. Now let all those kids start training, and yeah of course that would shift the average running speed higher, but the ones in front are probably still going to be in the front. Also, the “naturals” can train better simply because they are better and start higher up the ladder.

Academics, musical talent, eyesight, sports, and anything else is the same, and that is because not everyone is the same. Anyone can become better at something, but not everyone can become among the best. When you start nearing your natural limit your progress becomes slower.

The question is what does the distribution look like for “average” versus the standard deviations that go with? Our sample only consists of climbers. Are climber-folk naturally average, above average, or below average athletically speaking? How many non-climbers are out there who would kick ass if they dedicated their lives to climbing? Are Ondra and those boys REALLY the best or is it just that REAL athletes pursue sports that make them lots of money and fame? In my mind 5.14 is far from average no matter what, and there is no way in hell that an “average” person would ever climb 5.14 regardless of time or training. That shit is just too ridiculous, and so far as I know today even the best of the best of the best didn’t start out climbing harder than 5.12 so I’m going to start with that as my frontrunner mutant with tons of natural talent, and 5.12 is a looooong way from 5.14. That means the rest of us more normal people who thought 5.10a might actually be impossible on our first times out don’t stand a chance.

Also, please remember that half of all people are below average when you ask if EVERYONE can climb 5.14.

Nuff time wasted, nuff said. To reiterate, the answer 100% is HELL NO unless you rephrase the question.