Community Meeting - Nov 9th

[dustonian]

Gotta agree..."dirtbags" are usually young dilettantes. They tend to come & go in yearly cycles, disappearing in winter (& often summer) and leaving for good when they run out of daddy's money or need to see a doctor. It takes significantly more commitment to take a boring job as close as you can to an area you love because you actually want to stay there long-term... in some folks' cases, into their 40s, 50s, & 60s. Any ol' fool can camp out at Miguel's or "live in their car" (until it gets cold) for a few seasons. I did it for a decade and never really contributed much to the 5 or 6 climbing areas I drifted between.

[climb2core]

O.k. Let me be clear about what I am for and what I am against.
1) If you really wanted a "community" decision to be made, you'd pack up that shit-show-of-a-meeting and have it at Miguels on a Saturday night. That way you'd have more input from climbers rather than the usual suspects. Not just some little back room deal worked out by the mono-tones that live in Louis-ington. You know the people in THAT town; because they are the ones that call themselves local and get their mail 60 miles away. While trying to have get togethers over tea and coffee and set policy for other people inhabit a car year round for the opportunity to climb.

Your zipcode that you live in doesn't determine your contribution to the Red, or your ability to be part of its culture. Because someone CHOOSES to live in a car year round and be a dirt bag climber gives them no more entitlement. There has already been a meeting at Miguels and what was brought forth from that? I believe this venue will help focus the purpose of the mission. Why can't the dirtbags pack up their van and make the drive if they are so dedicated to the Red.

2) I'd love to help with the LAC. But outside of starting my own users-group and competing with the CC for the FS attention( I don't think the FS would appreciate it and would see it as a fracture of will, capitalize on that and NEVER get the LAC up and running. What I would rather see is the CC split its efforts, one with their gay-assed land aquisitions and the other to what the CC was originally set up to be. ) I'm on the black list.

OK, you are right. You could never be an asset. Go back to drinking PBR.

3) consider this, you guys have set in you little cubicals and postulated how Miguel should run his business, You've said the camping was too cheap and it attracts the wrong crowd. You blame miguels for whats wrong with the gorge when whats really wrong is you. You're pretentiousness exceeds you. Who do you think real climbers are, the ones with the houses with the two car garages and the picket fences with the barbeque out back or is it the guy eating out of a cooler and cooking his food over a stove on a picnic table?

Not "you guys"... That was one opinion, which for the record I completely disagreed with. Real climbers are people that climb. Your choice of lifestyle doesn't make you more real or better. What about John? Was he a real climber?
Do you think he contributed anything to the Red?

4) you set this lofty goal of PD's at the mother load. Who's going to enforce it- You going to take your day off from the corporate universe to go and "police" the crags? You're just going to bitch about it later. Besides, you don't get it. Dario owns the Load. What he says goes. CC land is far removed from the load. You can't set policy for land you don't own or manage. But you sure enough will try,\.

We wish it were that simple. One land owner with a clear directive. Case closed. But obviously it is not, so enough with the half truths.

[SCIN]

O.k. Let me be clear about what I am for and what I am against.
1) If you really wanted a "community" decision to be made, you'd pack up that shit-show-of-a-meeting and have it at Miguels on a Saturday night. That way you'd have more input from climbers rather than the usual suspects. Not just some little back room deal worked out by the mono-tones that live in Louis-ington. You know the people in THAT town; because they are the ones that call themselves local and get their mail 60 miles away. While trying to have get togethers over tea and coffee and set policy for other people inhabit a car year round for the opportunity to climb.
2) I'd love to help with the LAC. But outside of starting my own users-group and competing with the CC for the FS attention( I don't think the FS would appreciate it and would see it as a fracture of will, capitalize on that and NEVER get the LAC up and running. What I would rather see is the CC split its efforts, one with their gay-assed land aquisitions and the other to what the CC was originally set up to be. ) I'm on the black list.
3) consider this, you guys have set in you little cubicals and postulated how Miguel should run his business, You've said the camping was too cheap and it attracts the wrong crowd. You blame miguels for whats wrong with the gorge when whats really wrong is you. You're pretentiousness exceeds you. Who do you think real climbers are, the ones with the houses with the two car garages and the picket fences with the barbeque out back or is it the guy eating out of a cooler and cooking his food over a stove on a picnic table?
4) you set this lofty goal of PD's at the mother load. Who's going to enforce it- You going to take your day off from the corporate universe to go and "police" the crags? You're just going to bitch about it later. Besides, you don't get it. Dario owns the Load. What he says goes. CC land is far removed from the load. You can't set policy for land you don't own or manage. But you sure enough will try,\.


Like I said, if you want a real meeting to resolve real issues then have the meeting at Miguels non sequitur

The real climber is the one who climbs harder. The rest of the stuff is just camping.

[ynp1]

I guess this site should be called redrivercamping.com then.

[Clevis Hitch]

I didn't say anything that was half true. It was all true.

Consider this.

The kids that climb in the red on a daily basis are more "local" than the people who live elsewhere and climb on weekends or when ever. Resident. Lets say that instead of local. Some sort of romantic notion has been attached to "local" and you can't seem to get beyond the posturing.

You seem to also have come to the conclusion that if you get a job and settle down "near" where the action is it somehow negates the fact that you settled down and got a job. That your good old days are somehow better than the ones who are "living the life" on a day to day basis. The truth is this. You sold out. You quit. You abandoned your dream. Now its time for the ones who still live the dream to have their day.

And that means not having their experience cuckolded by some old codgers trying to call the shots for them. Lay down son, you're done!

And as for Dario, I speak to him on a daily fucking basis. In fact, I just got up from my prayer rug talking to him. Dario lives in my heart. He speakes through me.

[Clevis Hitch]

O.k. Let me be clear about what I am for and what I am against.
1) If you really wanted a "community" decision to be made, you'd pack up that shit-show-of-a-meeting and have it at Miguels on a Saturday night. That way you'd have more input from climbers rather than the usual suspects. Not just some little back room deal worked out by the mono-tones that live in Louis-ington. You know the people in THAT town; because they are the ones that call themselves local and get their mail 60 miles away. While trying to have get togethers over tea and coffee and set policy for other people inhabit a car year round for the opportunity to climb.
2) I'd love to help with the LAC. But outside of starting my own users-group and competing with the CC for the FS attention( I don't think the FS would appreciate it and would see it as a fracture of will, capitalize on that and NEVER get the LAC up and running. What I would rather see is the CC split its efforts, one with their gay-assed land aquisitions and the other to what the CC was originally set up to be. ) I'm on the black list.
3) consider this, you guys have set in you little cubicals and postulated how Miguel should run his business, You've said the camping was too cheap and it attracts the wrong crowd. You blame miguels for whats wrong with the gorge when whats really wrong is you. You're pretentiousness exceeds you. Who do you think real climbers are, the ones with the houses with the two car garages and the picket fences with the barbeque out back or is it the guy eating out of a cooler and cooking his food over a stove on a picnic table?
4) you set this lofty goal of PD's at the mother load. Who's going to enforce it- You going to take your day off from the corporate universe to go and "police" the crags? You're just going to bitch about it later. Besides, you don't get it. Dario owns the Load. What he says goes. CC land is far removed from the load. You can't set policy for land you don't own or manage. But you sure enough will try,\.


Like I said, if you want a real meeting to resolve real issues then have the meeting at Miguels non sequitur

The real climber is the one who climbs harder. The rest of the stuff is just camping.

right...

[EricDorsey]

You seem to also have come to the conclusion that if you get a job and settle down "near" where the action is it somehow negates the fact that you settled down and got a job. That your good old days are somehow better than the ones who are "living the life" on a day to day basis. The truth is this. You sold out. You quit. You abandoned your dream.

Haha, is living in a van in miguels parking lot really "living the dream"? I guess if you dont dream very big...

[climb2core]

I didn't say anything that was half true. It was all true.

Consider this.

The kids that climb in the red on a daily basis are more "local" than the people who live elsewhere and climb on weekends or when ever. Resident. Lets say that instead of local. Some sort of romantic notion has been attached to "local" and you can't seem to get beyond the posturing.

You seem to also have come to the conclusion that if you get a job and settle down "near" where the action is it somehow negates the fact that you settled down and got a job. That your good old days are somehow better than the ones who are "living the life" on a day to day basis. The truth is this. You sold out. You quit. You abandoned your dream. Now its time for the ones who still live the dream to have their day.

And that means not having their experience cuckolded by some old codgers trying to call the shots for them. Lay down son, you're done!
And as for Dario, I speak to him on a daily fucking basis. In fact, I just got up from my prayer rug talking to him. Dario lives in my heart. He speakes through me.

Joe, you are ranting... sold out? Gave up our dream? Tell me, how do you know what my dream is? Try to stay on track buddy. This was about PD's in the Red, lol.

[dustonian]

You seem to also have come to the conclusion that if you get a job and settle down "near" where the action is it somehow negates the fact that you settled down and got a job. That your good old days are somehow better than the ones who are "living the life" on a day to day basis. The truth is this. You sold out. You quit. You abandoned your dream. Now its time for the ones who still live the dream to have their day.

It's a sad day when the young fired-up rebellious climbers "living the life" make their big-boy statement by removing some draws from a sport crag... that shit was super fruity!! And what about the old dudes on Das Krue who live and work in Lex? Were they just trying to recapture their youthful "dreams" by joining such a humongously important cause? Did they also "abandon their dreams" because they ran out of mommy's money after a few years of livin the dream?

Get a life, go climb. If you want rigging work then go down to the union hall, put up some routes, or replace bolts for fuck's sake. Having strong opinions about fixed draws in sport climbing one way or the other is monumentally stupid and a waste of time. The draws are going to show up, either take them down if they're sharp, jingus, or hurt your wittle feelings, or else put something bomber in their place and move on, now shut up about it... christ!!!

[SCIN]

Ah the romanticism of being a bum. I remember those days. Time to go start my jacuzzi...........