Project Draws: How Long is Too Long?

[Artsay]

Kipp - it's the warmups/cool downs that get backed up at the Lode and see the most traffic in a day. Folks just want to move quick on them. It's typically not a "nice relaxing day at the crag" at the Lode...it's a training ground with folks screaming battle sounds with each move, cursing failure when they fall, and often times an audience of encouragment pushing climbers up their projects and applauding a hard send.

I posted the poll because I also don't think there can be a pre-determined acceptable time project draws can stay on a route, it just depends on so many factors.

Good post lena_chita.

[the lurkist]

I think that if the solution is a binary one, and the etiquette bcomes one where no draws are left over night, then there will be few problems with people having gear taken, b/c they won't be leaving it. What I mean is if you know when you leave your draws up they might not be there when you come back, you won't leave them. My personal approach is that I will take the left gear off the route and hang them on the anchors. Not to be a dick, but to keep them from arbitrarily being picked up at the base if I had left them there. I am not trying to be dogmatic about this, and if somebody has there draws on Chainsaw and is standing there and says that I can go through his gear, then I will use them. But for left gear, I won't use it, and have taken down gear off of routes (Stain, Katey Brown) in the past. In both of these cases the gear was horrible and had clearly been left seasons ago.

[pigsteak]

ok, I am weak sauce then..I thought the 11's on the left side were the warmups....

[dustonian]

I think that if the solution is a binary one, and the etiquette bcomes one where no draws are left over night, then there will be few problems with people having gear taken, b/c they won't be leaving it. What I mean is if you know when you leave your draws up they might not be there when you come back, you won't leave them. My personal approach is that I will take the left gear off the route and hang them on the anchors. Not to be a dick, but to keep them from arbitrarily being picked up at the base if I had left them there. I am not trying to be dogmatic about this, and if somebody has there draws on Chainsaw and is standing there and says that I can go through his gear, then I will use them. But for left gear, I won't use it, and have taken down gear off of routes (Stain, Katey Brown) in the past. In both of these cases the gear was horrible and had clearly been left seasons ago.

Be sure to take down all the draws in Hell while you're at it too... or the "ethical" code doesn't apply there because it's "secret"? Same goes for A6, PG, Dark Side, Gold Coast, Bob Marley, Purgatory, Shady Grove, Drive By... you should also go on a roadtrip to Rifle, Maple, Jailhouse, NRG, Rumney, and dozens of other crags to swipe their draws too... you know, spread the fervor like a religious fundamentalist. Go strip Muir as well by dark of night.

At some point you gotta face it, this ain't 1997 anymore. If the draws are sketchy or their presence on a route truly offends your delicate sensibilities, then take 'em down... it ain't that complex. We're big boys & girls with our own eyeballs and tactile sense. Otherwise fuckin climb and stop proselytizing everyone, for god's sake... it is truly irritating.

On another note, if you guys think you can "educate" every single visitor to the RRG into complying with whatever dictates the "community" decides, you are straight-up delusional. All these stupid climbing "rules" everyone is throwing out are a pain in the ass. Just climb and take charge of your own safety. If a draw breaks it's your own damn fault for clipping it, dumb ass. All this kicking and screaming by the CREW et al. is plain desperate. Go volunteer or work on something important!

BTW Hugh you are replacing any and all worn-out SSGI's on the Undertow after a couple years of dumbasses lowering directly through them. I give Chainsaw 5-6 years tops with "our community's" new holier-than-thou dictates.

[twobmary]

You forgot the disclaimer that should say “Poll only intended for climbers projecting .12+ and above. All other draws left on 'projects' are considered booty.” Am I wrong?

So to answer your question, it’s until I leave that particular crag on that day. Crazy I know, working a route and having to set the draws and clean it. But since my projects are only of the .11 grade I don't qualify to leave project draws b/c I guess I'm not badass enough. That's not sarcasm, that's realism. And that's the way it should be.

In my opinion, (and who am I?) if it's convenience and "safety" people want there are plenty of gyms conveniently located with conveniently pre-hung draws that people conveniently don't have to clean. All these gray areas everyone wants to create around what works for them, two weeks, two months... These discussions are so frustrating. I’m actually finding myself thinking pigsteak is one of the only level headed ones! I can't believe it.

And how am I supposed to know how long your draws have been hanging for anyway??





Note to self: stop being a pussy and get better at crack

[dustonian]

NEW RULE: EVERYONE MUST DATE-STAMP THEIR QUICKDRAWS!!!

[climb2core]

Dustin, who do you think is leaving up all these mank project draws??? It is NOT the visitors that come once or twice a month, or once or twice a year. It is the local climbers and developers that either live close to the Red or stay for a season before moving on to Bishop. I would guess 95% of the draws are put up by the Lexington locals or seasonal locals... Hardly a huge group to reach out to.

Why is it that project gear gets left and abandoned... like Taste the Rainbow for example? Doesn't some local leave it up to be nice for the others to use and just kind of forgets about it because they left town or already sent? So, how about people stop leaving aluminum gear up for the others to ride "for awhile"...

[clif]

Be sure to take down all the draws in Hell while you're at it too... or the "ethical" code doesn't apply there because it's "secret"? Same goes for A6, PG, Dark Side, Gold Coast, Bob Marley, Purgatory, Shady Grove, Drive By... you should also go on a roadtrip to Rifle, Maple, Jailhouse, NRG, Rumney, and dozens of other crags to swipe their draws too... you know, spread the fervor like a religious fundamentalist. Go strip Muir as well by dark of night.

At some point you gotta face it, this ain't 1997 anymore. If the draws are sketchy or their presence on a route truly offends your delicate sensibilities, then take 'em down... it ain't that complex. We're big boys & girls with our own eyeballs and tactile sense. Otherwise fuckin climb and stop proselytizing everyone, for god's sake... it is truly irritating.

On another note, if you guys think you can "educate" every single visitor to the RRG into complying with whatever dictates the "community" decides, you are straight-up delusional. All these stupid climbing "rules" everyone is throwing out are a pain in the ass. Just climb and take charge of your own safety. If a draw breaks it's your own damn fault for clipping it, dumb ass. All this kicking and screaming by the CREW et al. is plain desperate. Go volunteer or work on something important!

BTW Hugh you are replacing any and all worn-out SSGI's on the Undertow after a couple years of dumbasses lowering directly through them. I give Chainsaw 5-6 years tops with "our community's" new holier-than-thou dictates.

i'm glad you edited the initial post. i've highlighted what i would've kept.

[dustonian]

Dustin, who do you think is leaving up all these mank project draws??? It is NOT the visitors that come once or twice a month, or once or twice a year. It is the local climbers and developers that either live close to the Red or stay for a season before moving on to Bishop. I would guess 95% of the draws are put up by the locals... Hardly a huge group to reach out to.

Well, that's like your opinion, man. I don't know who is leaving them, but the fact of the matter is they leave them. It's not really a "moral" or education issue but a pragmatic one. The preaching from the outspoken minority is kind of inane given the historical reality of crap left on walls. Preaching on the internet about how bad people are doesn't do jack shit to affect that. Getting all excited for a couple months once every 6 years for a big "cleanup" does slightly but not much more in the grand scheme of things. The only real solution is to check your gear before trusting it, remove actual mank, and think for yourself. The rest of it is all utopian cumbaya crap.

[pigsteak]

hmmm, does this also apply to trail days and packing out poop and unleashed dogs...all the hollering needs to stop cuz it does no good?