RRC Archives

Shamis wrote: If I look over the last 19 years of my climbing, there is a common theme: I train really hard, get strong, and then typically get injured. Lots of random injuries. hamstring, back, hip, finger, etc. So my main focus is to build a huge base, vary my workouts between bouldering, lots of endurance routes with no rest, running, and some weight lifting. I have no desire to push my limits in any single area (except endurance) until I'm out on my projects.

I'm just curious. If you were going to run a marathon, and you went running prior to said marathon, would that be called training? Or fun running?

Maybe the correct word is maintaining? In terms of the running, it depends. From my very limited marathon experience every run was planned 15ish weeks out in terms of weekly mileage, long runs, up tempo days, etc. I would call that training. And yes, more measurables would make it look more like training!

Not trying to take anything away from your 'training', just trying to get back to pigsteaks original question. There seems to be a big difference between what you are doing - fun gym sessions - and deliberate training that pushes your climbing abilities.

fray21 wrote:Deliberate planning and practice is one side of the equation. The other side is practicing the right things in a smart and efficient way.

I plan out every workout and trip months in advance. I've been deliberate about practicing for the last five years, but I continue to get smarter and more efficient with how I spend/plan the practice time.

This sounds like training, and for me this is fun. I map out my workout cycles months in advance and really enjoy the training process. Not for everyone though.

krampus wrote:accidental practice is more fun, and usually involves climbing

+1
i'm a subscriber

pigsteak wrote:For those who wallow in continual staleness with climbing, why do you accept less than your best?

viewing myself in this lens makes me feel inadequate....i quit.

Planning months in advance is difficult when you're making exponential gains that are tough to gauge in advance.

Kipp, I've climbed with you enough to know what you need to work on. Stop worrying about 'practice' and just go build a power endurance bouldering program. The cycle that worked for me was to select 4-5 warmup problems, and then start working harder stuff. Each session, add the harder stuff into your circuit after you send them. Eventually you get to the point where you're doing a 15-20 problem circuit followed by a few attempts on your next problem to add to the circuit. Reset the program when problems change at the wall/gym that you're at. Each cycle you'll get stronger. Don't go to the bouldering gym and hop on whatever looks good. Force yourself to do the warmups, force a progression, and stay off the deadpoints and dynos that will destroy your shoulder. The hard problems you work into the program should be more body tension style problems, and less of the awkward throw/lunge/dyno stuff that you are typically drawn to.

You're also big and meaty like me so you need a proper diet to slim down if you really want to break into higher grades. The harder moves will feel easier.

I think you can apply a systematic approach to climbing. I've tried intermittently with some success. Odub is definitely doing it with success.
On the other hand, looking at young guys and girls that start climbing and ascend the grades in short order- what are they doing? I don't get the sense they are systematically training. I think what they do is fall in love with the idea of climbing, and do nothing else. What allows them to excel is an organic approach and the accompanying conditions and the environment they do it in. Namely, they have lots of free time, they are approaching or at their peak level of testosterone and ability to recover, the gyms environment has facilitated approaching climbing recreation-ally as an activity that is like effective training, and the peer expectation for young climbers is that you will be able to climb at least 5.13 and you are just becoming note worthy when you climb 5.14.
So basically the conditions are right to become a bad ass. Fertile soil to grow young shredders in.

I think you can see the best results with a systematic approach to training, but for most people, they just can't focus that long for a variety of reasons. I've tried to come up with specific plans for myself and I tend to not follow through. Then I read some articles on periodization and other training articles and boiled it all down to the simplest factors of overload, variety and rest. Almost every article talks about overloading your muscles in order to gain strength. So for my workouts, I try to climb a little harder each day whether it is more routes, more time on a route, more difficult routes, etc. I try to break it down into single moves. If I can make one more move or even forward progress on a hold I previously could only hold on to,I consider it progress. Then as I am building up, once I have a few sessions in a row where I am not making any progress on whatever I am working on, I switch focus from one aspect of climbing to another (power endurance to endurance for example). Every couple of months, I take some time off and either completely rest for a week or just do some really easy climbing, several levels below my ability. I think this approach is called intuitive periodization or something. I definitely borrowed the idea from other sources, but I don't remember exactly where. I broke my ankle back in January and didn't climb again until the end of March. Mostly just had fun for the spring season and got back to climbing 12a. I started this plan about six weeks ago and I am about one letter grade off from my previous sport climbing grade (12d/13a), but am actually bouldering a little stronger than before. I'm looking forward to seeing what will happen once I hit my previous grade and how quickly I can surpass it with this unstructured plan.

My philosophy lately has been just to try hard and make sure you leave the gym wrecked. I think this is all that is needed. The average climber at the gym I go to climbs 5.13+ and V double digits. Noone there uses deliberate practice. No hangboard routines, campus board routines, ab workouts, etc... The only thing routinely done is trying hard, and leaving tired. My guess is that if people went to the gym and climbed as much as they socialize they would get stronger. Everyone is a fulltime workers and most have wives and families as well... There are no excuses, they joke around, if you are having a weak day expect to be called out, motivation is high, but most of all they try hard and climb a lot.

Good environment. Must be Hester's? I think one of the most important things is peer expectations, and then by proxy, your self- expectation. All boats rise with the tide.

slackers will prevail

Damn kafish2, for real? I hope that is an average of like 10 or so really strong-ass people. It must suck to be that guy bouldering solid V8 who needs a solid V13'er to balance his weak-ass out. For me to be allowed you'd have to find someone to bust into the V18 grade.