Muir Valley

[the lurkist]

I have said it before and I will say it again. When we are old and forgotten, and serial new generations of climbers have come and gone, the history of climbing in the Red will be marked by a few milestones, one of which will be Rick and Liz doing the incredibly generous and philanthropic gesture that we all have been fortunate enough to enjoy. Them committing their resources to create a recreational preserve (whatever label you choose) consumates what we all know--> that if the Red were in a more progressive state/country, it would be a national park.
That said, I have always understood the choice of using Muir's name. He is one of my heros. "Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.." Who hasn't felt those words? I always thought it was a tad odd though, given Muir never set foot in KY, and is associated with the Sierras. The name was contrived and artificial, but the gesture was understood. What I wondered is why the Webers didn't pay homage to the local culture and keep the original name of the hollar? Devils Branch I think or Big Andy ( the ridge the hollar is off of.) There are plenty of options. Anyway... Basically I thought is was a bit arrogant for a couple from Indy to buy the land and erase the names that spoke to its history, and apply a name that has no basis in the land's history.

[bcombs]

... given Muir never set foot in KY...

I thought that he went through KY on the 1000 mile walk to the Gulf?

http://www.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exh ... cs/map.gif

Edited to add: btw... was a fantastic book.

[the lurkist]

I take your word for it. I stand corrected. I guess my point is Muir impact on Ky history is negligible.

[bcombs]

Wasn't trying to correct as much and make sure I wasn't going crazy. I seem to remember him saying something about the post-war bandits in KY were of concern, but that on occasions he was invited in for a meal. It's been a long time since I read it. I have always had such an urge to do something like that. Walking the Sheltowee (which shares the path with the John Muir trail for a bit) is probably the closest I'll ever come.

[the lurkist]

Walking the Sheltowee would be cool. Goes right through the Southern Region.

[Clevis Hitch]

I have said it before and I will say it again. When we are old and forgotten, and serial new generations of climbers have come and gone, the history of climbing in the Red will be marked by a few milestones, one of which will be Rick and Liz doing the incredibly generous and philanthropic gesture that we all have been fortunate enough to enjoy. Them committing their resources to create a recreational preserve (whatever label you choose) consumates what we all know--> that if the Red were in a more progressive state/country, it would be a national park.
That said, I have always understood the choice of using Muir's name. He is one of my heros. "Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.." Who hasn't felt those words? I always thought it was a tad odd though, given Muir never set foot in KY, and is associated with the Sierras. The name was contrived and artificial, but the gesture was understood. What I wondered is why the Webers didn't pay homage to the local culture and keep the original name of the hollar? Devils Branch I think or Big Andy ( the ridge the hollar is off of.) There are plenty of options. Anyway... Basically I thought is was a bit arrogant for a couple from Indy to buy the land and erase the names that spoke to its history, and apply a name that has no basis in the land's history.

You sure you don't want to revise that statemnent, Any disparaging remarks about the Webbers could call down the fire of the "glassy-eyed-true-believers", not to mention that the Webbers might sue you.

[toad857]

The USFS manages under the Mulitple-Use Sustained-Yield Act of 1960.

yet that is not why it was originally created. it came directly out of the realization in the late 1800's that we were quickly deforesting our nation, and this was not sustainable. it was originally called 'division of forestry', and it was for timber. they continue to generate most of their money from timber sales. working for the USFS has shown me that the timber aspect certainly is the 'meat' of the organization, for better or worse.

Next, how is Muir Valley an nature preserve?

Because it preserves nature.

The improvements (gravel roads, trails, signs, selectively removed trees, etc.) are all things that most 'official' nature preserves have also. I see no significant impact of those improvements on the function of the ecosystem as a whole, nor on the flora and fauna that are there. I have found relatively large american chestnuts (rare to find as a big tree) and swainson's warblers (one of kentucky's rarest birds) in Muir Valley, along with lots of other neat stuff that isn't exactly easy to find. The logging history is pretty evident--it's no Tight Hollow--but it's certainly no mountaintop removal site either.

I looked online and in textbooks and could not find a universal set of rules and regulations for nature preserves.

That's because there is no such set of rules. Most State Nature Preserves are governed by the state in which they reside (e.g., KNSPC, Kentucky State Nature Preserves Commission), so, their rules will only pertain to those lands inside of that state. Private land that has been designated a nature preserve (like MV) probably doesn't have to follow any rules at all, if I had to guess. One could buy a chunk of land and call it "Chateau Awesome" if they wanted to. It's their land.

[the lurkist]

Thanks, Cleve, but I will hold fast.

[mike_a_lafontaine]

You sure you don't want to revise that statemnent, Any disparaging remarks about the Webbers could call down the fire of the "glassy-eyed-true-believers", not to mention that the Webbers might sue you.

Most people judge others based on the way they have been treated. Perhaps, then, the Webers have so many people willing to take up for them is because they have treated so many people with kindness? I have known Rick and Liz for only a year, yet every time I see them I am treated as if their day was scheduled around my visit.

Proud to be a glassy-eyed true believer in people like Rick and Liz.

[pigsteak]

call me glassy eyed as well...there isn't a single person on here who has committed as much in the way of financial resources as they have. not one. hell, I am guessing that even as a complete user group we have not begin to touch their generosity.

as far as the name...who cares? seriously. they own it, call it what they want. if it makes you feel better, call it devils branch when you speak of it. my guess is the hillbillies who owned it renamed it from whatever Native American tribe used these lands back in the day..why aren't you calling them out?

petty. really is.

oh yeah, anyone on here get married and have their wife change her last name? shame on you. what about her personal history?