RRC Archives

I'm with one-fall on this one. Place your own shit. police your gear and climb on.

on a related note, I overheard somthing this weekend about friction on steel biners building up and burning sheeths? I'm interested in this thought, any info on the topic? I kinda see the reasoning behind it (denser material = less wear and more friction) But is the differance a moot point?

One-Fall,

I'm game to shoot you some cash towards the permadraws via Paypal etc. I've been working table and those draws you have look spiffy.

-Kgrr

According to what people were saying in this forum, steel biners could heat up your rope more than aluminum:

"steel's not as good a conductor as aluminum, so the heat doesn't move away from the point of contact as fast, so more ends up on the rope"

"Carbon steel, depending on the alloy, has about 1/2 the heat capacity of aluminum and 1/3 the conductivity so, as you say, it will put more heat into the rope. Because the heat can't exit the friction zone as fast as in the aluminum case, the extra heat in the zone means higher temperature. My stainless steel rack is a good example. Its thermal properties are substantially worse even than carbon steel, so it doesn't absorb much heat and it does so slowly. But it gets very hot! An aluminum rack, all else being equal, would absorb far more heat and run cooler. "

http://treeclimbercoalition.org/phpBB/v ... aecabb0777

Seems to me the ideal thing to do for fixed gear (steep routes) is to use the SS perma-draws, except on the anchors. Hang your own draws there, and lower off of those if you are going to TR or repeat the route. You can wrap or lower off of a ring or quick link when done. Slightly less convenient, but this should address the concern about the anchors being worn. I would expect SS biners to last a very, very long time unless they are frequently being lowered off of.

Hi All,

Sorry I didn't have the time to read through all comments, so I apolpgize if this is redundant.

Something very similar to this happened in a climbing gym in Prague a couple years ago:
http://www.czechclimbing.com/clanek.php ... _carabiner

Here is the official report from the czech mountaineering union:
http://www.horosvaz.cz/res/data/029/003307.pdf
If anyone is making a serious study of it let me know, I can translate it.

Great analysis there, thanks Andrew. "Fortunately" (somewhat) it is often the first draw due to the decreased fleet angle in lowering when the belayer stands away from the wall (the article also points this out)--the problem is especially bad with sandy ropes in the Red with folks who don't keep their cord outta the dirt. However, the problem is unfortunately not exclusive to first draws--crux draws, anchors, and any bolt out of line with the rest are also susceptible on high-traffic routes. That day we ran into you at Torrent and I swapped out the crux biner on Big Money Grip is a classic example... that thing was NASTY!!

Rifle has a "fixed draw fund" where you can purchase x-amount of draws and either specify which route you'd like to see them on or just donate them to the area and where ever they go, they go. Having climbed on them quite a lot out there, I can say they are a far cry better than old dry-rotted slings that now grace the cliffs around KY. People are gonna leave draws hanging, probably for longer than is safe. Might as well put up something that has a much longer shelf life and can withstand the hoards of people climbing up the 'classics'.

agreed... the ClimbTech draws in Rifle are kick ass. These will soon be up at many crags at Muir... many thanks to Isaac at Hoosier Heights for the generous donation!!

aburgoon wrote:Something very similar to this happened in a climbing gym in Prague a couple years ago:
http://www.czechclimbing.com/clanek.php ... _carabiner.

Again, 1) biner with a contoured surface, 2) biner worn to render this surface a sharp edge, and 3) high fall factor at first bolt. The recipe is pretty clear at this point.
• Climbing industry fix:
- do not contour the edges of the carabiners that meet the rope; keep these circular stock.
• Climbing community fix:
- steel biners w/ no contours
- hang your own
- check the first and second one if you don't hang your own, and question all others
- don't buy biners that have contoured rope/biner surfaces. The industry will get the picture very quickly when their shit does not sell.

Agreed... the sharpest biners I have seen are generally the contoured wiregates... biners that are meant for alpine climbing and mountaineering for their extreme lightness and the fact they don't freeze up... but have somehow now found their way onto the rope end of fixed draws on sport routes