RRC Archives

Clevis Hitch wrote:Doesn't it cost like $5000 to get airlifted? She had a siezure and was climbing the next day? That seems like a miricle or something....

There are two helicopter services down here. The charges for each from Pine Ridge near Muir to UK ER is about $13,500. No joke.

Of course, when someone is critically injured, the cost is not a concern. But the Wolfe County EMS folks often send someone to UK Med who really does not need a heli evac. For example, Liz slipped on a trail and busted a tib fib (not compound) a couple years ago and the local EMS guy called in a heli. Fun ride, but that's when we found out about the cost. No prob with insurance, but without it... whooee.

So, Liz was taken by meat wagon to Pine Ridge, waited around a while for the helicopter, then when she got to UK Med, she waited a long time for surgery. Bottom line, it would have been almost as fast by ground vehicle from the Red to Lex.

Last week the guy who slipped on the Roadside trail and cut his head bled a lot as head wounds tend to do, but he did not have a TBI, nor was he in danger of bleeding out, yet they sent him on a $13K joyride.

If you don't have insurance and are injured and you believe it is not critical to get to a hospital fast, then you might consider saying no to the ambulance guys and having your buddies run you up to Lexington. They will require you to sign a PRT form (patient refuses treatment/transport.)

Rick

a brief word about insurance.

after the deductibles and copays, the industry also has a 'usual, customary and reasonable' clause. yes, ALL THREE. if the expense does not comply with these proprietary confines, they will pay what they want and declare the rest up to you, and hit your credit rating.

it's a hassle.

anyway, about 2/3 of an ambulance ride from outer Beattyville to Lexington is NOT reasonable.

Just last weekend I was complaining to myself that some of the first bolts in Muir were pretty high. I get the logic, and it is def safer! I guess it is just time for me to break down and buy a stick clip and stop relying on finding a large stick.

And I think people assume climbing outside is that same as a gym. A lot of people come in large groups, with all people from the gym who have never been outside. There is a lot to be learned by going getting outside with more experienced climbers. The variety of situations that you run into can lead to some pretty serious mistakes by new outdoor climbers. People shouldn't be in such a rush to be self sufficient and "experienced".

Teaching someone not to be overconfident is about as easy as teaching someone not to be afraid.

Another groundfall! Unbelievable. We're on about 1/week for 2010 so far...

Regarding insurance, medical insurance does not cover the heli... you would need evacuation insurance for that. A small policy, usually less than $20-25/month, but definitely nice to have if you do a lot of backcountry alpine stuff. Or apparently, sport climbing in the Red too!

dustonian wrote:Regarding insurance, medical insurance does not cover the heli... you would need evacuation insurance for that. A small policy, usually less than $20-25/month, but definitely nice to have if you do a lot of backcountry alpine stuff. Or apparently, sport climbing in the Red too!

Might be a good reason to join the American Alpine Club - http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pt/globalrescue

[quote="dustonian"]Another groundfall! Unbelievable. We're on about 1/week for 2010 so far...

Despite how accurate this claim may or may not be this is still a frightening statement. The "fixing" of routes that have first or second bolts within ground fall range could be considered a last resort option. Changing the way a route is equipped might be better discussed in a different forum topic. It also brings the route down to the level of the climber not elevating the climbers skill level to the challenge.
I still feel like awareness is going to be the best means of prevention.
Consider this as well, if I may. The airlifts, ambu rides and the frequency of emergency personal being called for climbing/hiking related accidents is disturbing. I know that is what EMS is there for but if they are being called, say, 4 times a month or so it starts to spread that resource thin for the non-recreational community at large which then could effect access issues at the Red which already seem to be fighting that fight pretty hard and well I might add.

I agree, calling for EMS and a heli evac when you're less than 20 minutes from the car is ridiculous. If you're having a heart attack or massive blood loss, sure. But if you decked from 20 feet and hurt your ankle or something, sack up and get yourself to the ER... and start reevaluating your experience level, suitedness to rock climbing, and looking for better belayer in the meantime too. Having seizures after a ground fall, well that's another story... I still wonder what kind of longer-term damage might have been caused by this accident.

DHB wrote:It may eventually come to the closing of walls on FS land, it may not. It all depends on how the problem spreads from here.

WTF? So when people hike off the cliff are they endangering hiking on FS land? There have been many more of these incidents than climbing incidents.

jdstic2 wrote:you should bring your abilities up to the climb, not the climb down to your ability. if there is a potential ground fall that your concerned about go over the moves in you mind till you feel comfortable or realize your over your head and down climb. climbing is dangerous, sport climbing has taken some of the risk out since you can rest at every bolt and bail when ever but it is still dangerous.

And wait until you are married to do THAT and just say no to drugs and stay in school. This advice does not work.