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the c3 replaced them, i guess that it's bd's opinion that they're better. i would probably agree... though, i think for a four lobed unit the old bd red and yellow are the best.

i should have said my favorite... not best.

I would say that the whole thing depends on the lateral contact area of the cam lobe. (?)please correct me if I'm wrong. It makes sense that more contact area would make for a stronger placement. Going the other direction, with a smaller contact area, I think that its ability to hold a far would be limited by rock strength and its friction/resistance generated. Those things being known I think (help me out here, I'm just guessing) that how well placed they are would be critical to how well they'd hold. Not saying that a four lobed cam could be placed sloppily. I'm just saying(guessing) three lobers need best placements.(?)(?)

Clevis Hitch wrote:I would say that the whole thing depends on the lateral contact area of the cam lobe. (?)please correct me if I'm wrong. It makes sense that more contact area would make for a stronger placement. Going the other direction, with a smaller contact area, I think that its ability to hold a far would be limited by rock strength and its friction/resistance generated. Those things being known I think (help me out here, I'm just guessing) that how well placed they are would be critical to how well they'd hold. Not saying that a four lobed cam could be placed sloppily. I'm just saying(guessing) three lobers need best placements.(?)(?)

You are correct with the surface area argument. With 3 lobe cams, you are concentrating the same force into a smaller contact surface area with the rock. Since we're talking microcams, if you crunch a little bit of rock, say 1mm, that might be the difference between holding and popping.

So:
a) four lobes (generally) will give you more surface area
b) are redundant (can catch on two lobes)
c) are less finicky/not as tricky to get a "better" placement out of.
d) of course, this all depends on the placement, rock quality, moon alignment, etc.

another things aliens have going for them is the softer lobe metal, which increases bite (or surface area). this is also why they mangle and get funky so quickly. (and this is all asuming the alien's braze actually holds in the first place)

Wired bliss has a nice set of tcus with soft metal like aliens.

TradMike wrote:Wired bliss has a nice set of tcus with soft metal like aliens.

Yar.

And I'll add, and it says clearly in my first post about the cams, I am not anti-c3's. I just think there are times and places for each type of cam. In hard rock with small slots, pin scars, wierd placements, c3's are the shit. I would just prefer an alien in softer rock anyday due to my experiences with pieces popping (and watching pieces pop). That said, certain cracks in the gorge are HARD (that's what she said) and SMALL (yup), and eat up tiny little c3's, and you can be damn certain I'm placing them (where lizard's dare, comes to mind, though i used both c3's and aliens).

Well, I have three complete sets of C3's. So if I get into sketch rock I'll just double down and equalize!
It is so nice that the three lobed units will fit into places that you just can't get a four lobed unit. Don't get me wrong though, I'll def/ be on the look out for some lose micro-cams!

Clevis Hitch wrote:Well, I have three complete sets of C3's.

gear whore much? i thought i was bad.