RRC Archives

getting shot by either one would hurt a bunch - especially in the nuts! That would hurt a lot. For that matter almost any bodily area would hurt quite a bit - but in the nuts would be really bad.

Gripster,
Today's version of the S&W 617 is also a 10 shot revolver. It is sweet!!!! I have the older 6 shot version, best trigger pull in the industry and incredible accuracy.

Alan Evil wrote:There is no such thing as a gun that is good for home defense. The most likely use for such a weapon is against someone that lives there. Simple facts. If you want it for target shooting and playing around, that's fine, put a lock on it when you're not planning on shooting it. But if you're going to keep an unlocked gun in your house the chances you will use it in self defense are almost zero while the chances that gun will kill someone you love are substantial.

bump!

caribe wrote:

Alan Evil wrote:chances you will use it in self defense are almost zero while the chances that gun will kill someone you love are substantial.

bump!

While I'm actually one of those who stores his guns as Mr. Evil and Caribe would suggest, that is so safely locked away as to be useless for defense, I think there is some good scholarly research that rather thoroughly busts the myth repeated above. If I recall correctly, the research was done by Dr. Kleck? I'll see if I can find it.

I agree that if you live in a big city and have a criminal record (you could also say be a member of a minority group as well, but that might be racism), then if you have a gun in house the statistics show you to be much more likely to be involved in gun violence. But, I don't think you can push those stats out to everyone else.

I had three shotguns + ammo in my room at 11, I even had a reloader for the shells. Never had to "play with guns" because I was taught to shoot them, and was able to do so on a regular basis. And, also unlike most of you, I have been shot seriously enough to have to spend five days in the hospital. Idiot friend shot me with a crossman 760, and the bb entered my upper left shoulder, bounced around the lung a bit (partial deflating it) and stopped .5 inches from my heart. If you xray my chest, there is a perfect little dot right in the middle of the heart area. But, that had nothing to do with guns, and all to do with an idiot who wasn't raised right.

good thing you weren't shot on the nuts!

Yep, the greatest myth buster in the history of firearms research is Dr. Gary Kleck. The following might be of interest:

"Gary Kleck is a Professor in the School of Criminology and Criminal Justice at Florida State University (see overview). His research centers on violence and crime control with special focus on gun control and crime deterrence. Dr. Kleck is the author of Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America (Aldine de Gruyter, 1991), and Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control (Aldine de Gruyter, 1997). He is also a contributor to the major sociology journals, and in 1993 Dr. Kleck was the winner of the Michael J. Hindelang Award of the American Society of Criminology, for the book which made "the most outstanding contribution to criminology" in the preceding three years (for Point Blank).

Gary Kleck's voluntary disclosure statement that appears in Targeting Guns:

The author is a member of the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Independent Action, Democrats 2000, and Common Cause, among other politically liberal organizations He is a lifelong registered Democrat, as well as a contributor to liberal Democratic candidates. He is not now, nor has he ever been, a member of, or contributor to, the National Rifle Association, Handgun Control, Inc. nor any other advocacy organization, nor has he received funding for research from any such organization.

Marvin Wolfgang, who was one of the most prominent criminologists, commented on Kleck's research concerning defensive gun use (see How often are guns used in self-defense?):

I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country. If I were Mustapha Mond of Brave New World, I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police. I hate guns--ugly, nasty instruments designed to kill people. ...

What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator... I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research. ...

Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence. The National Crime Victim Survey does not directly contravene this latest survey, nor do the Mauser and Hart studies. ...

Nevertheless, the methodological soundness of the current Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it. ...

The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objections in advance and have done exceedingly well.
--- Marvin E. Wofgang, "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.) "

Just Google "Gary Kleck" There's tons of stuff. You can even find his books free online. If you can stand the scholarly style check out "Point Blank - Guns and Violence in America" All 500 and something pages free for the reading online.

L K Day wrote:Gripster,
Today's version of the S&W 617 is also a 10 shot revolver. It is sweet!!!! I have the older 6 shot version, best trigger pull in the industry and incredible accuracy.

well how about that shit. i need to go to the gun shop, i haven't been in too long apparently! The concept of a 10 round revolver is bad ass in general. It's like having a semiautomatic handgun that never jams!

caribe wrote:

Alan Evil wrote:But if you're going to keep an unlocked gun in your house the chances you will use it in self defense are almost zero while the chances that gun will kill someone you love are substantial.

bump!

what makes you think i'm not trying to defend myself from my loved ones?

Late to the party, I guess, but the Thompson Contender is pretty versatile. Put the .410 barrel on for home defense, there are about 8 other calibers available for other purposes. Drawback is that you've got one shot and reload. More for the person who gets their jollies from more deliberate shooting...