How did it end up at 12c then?the lurkist wrote:coming from the guy who FA'd it. Blue Eyed Honkey Jesus is 12a, maybe b.
Hey Sandbagger
The Red River guidebook is not built on a single person's opinion. I take into account everyone's opinion when I decide to change a grade. If I climb something and feel like it's not graded correctly then I look at the consensus on here and on 8a.nu and also see what people's comments are on here and on 8a.nu. I even PM people whose opinion I trust and ask them what they think. I ignore statements from people who tend to call everything "soft" just to make themselves look "hard" (like Sandman was talking about). The people who have weighed in on this with their support for the downgrade are veterans to 5.12 here at the Red. That really says a lot to me and makes me feel like I'm not being pompous by downgrading these routes.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
-Horatio
-Horatio
Truelena_chita wrote:No matter what, people will always disagree about the grades.
Relying on any one person to call the grades, even someone really experienced and familiar with the area, would always result in personal bias based on that person's climbing strengths, style, etc. Not to mention, how many times he/she had climbed that particular route, what conditions, etc.
True. You are right on the money. But for the most part this is how things are graded. I would add that the surrounding routes have a heavy influence on the grade given to a subsequent route. So by this reasoning the very first routes put in at a given crag will invariably influence the rest.
Is this your personal list or are you getting this from peoples comments?chriss wrote: Reticent 12c (easier than the other two 12c's in the cave)
Jesus Wept 12c (I think most people would agree, even though it was my first 12d)
Harvest 12c (about the same as resurrection)
swahili slang 12b
Irreverent C 12b (the same as false idol)
Directed Panspermia 12a
Magnum Opus 12a (Not the same grade as the other 12b's on the wall)
Zone of silence 12a (If you climb the path of least resistance )
Deep six 12a
Gladuator 11d / 12a
Ro ???
Ohio arts 11d
Immaculate deception 11d
Ball Scratcher 11d
Flying monkeys 11d
crack the whip 11ish
beef stick 11d
J rats back 11c/d
Funny thing is I agree with every single one of these. It can't be a coincidence. Or can it? What are the chances Math Boy?
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mike_anderson
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:52 pm
Wow, apparently I hit the right button. Sorry, man, I thought we were just having a discussion here.
To be able to pinpoint a grade means you have to vividly remember many of the other climbs of that grade you have done, including what the conditions were on the day you sent, how strong you were at that point in your life, whether or not you were in shape, and how much climbing you had done that day (to name a few). That's great if you believe you have that ability, and maybe I'm just getting old and losing my memory, but I can't remember all that. I've always felt that the people struggling at those grades are the best suited to make those judgments. But that's just like, my opinion, man.
I didn't realize you had a panel of experts you were consulting. Apparently these folks don't vote on the website...maybe they should. Again, my apologies.
To be able to pinpoint a grade means you have to vividly remember many of the other climbs of that grade you have done, including what the conditions were on the day you sent, how strong you were at that point in your life, whether or not you were in shape, and how much climbing you had done that day (to name a few). That's great if you believe you have that ability, and maybe I'm just getting old and losing my memory, but I can't remember all that. I've always felt that the people struggling at those grades are the best suited to make those judgments. But that's just like, my opinion, man.
I didn't realize you had a panel of experts you were consulting. Apparently these folks don't vote on the website...maybe they should. Again, my apologies.