Show Taylor that you are going to use the bolts to replace old bolts, and he will give you a huge discount.
heacocis wrote:We are using 16mm (5/8 inch) glue-ins now in Muir Valley. These are the "twisted" ones that Andrew mentioned. They are made by Jim Titt, and thus sometimes called "Titt bolts." He has a very informative site, www.bolt-products.com. In terms of holding power, they are far superior to Fixe, Petzl, Ushba, or other manufacturers because of the unique twists. Hilti makes some threaded rod anchors that may also work, but then you have to deal with a hanger and nut (and thus them loosening and spinning).
There are also 1/2 inch Titt bolts that are actually stronger than a Powers bolt, so since you would be hand drilling this would likely be the best option for you.
Using the original hole is not problematic in any way, and in fact a nice feature of glue-ins. It doesn't matter if the hole is reemed out or otherwise irregular because the glue will simply fill it all in. This is also true if you reem out the outside edges of a hole; as long as you squirt the glue in there it will all be filled.
Rick has found it best, and thus recommends, using the Hilti 500-RE glue. The material and air temperature needs to be greater than 24 degrees (F).
One thing to remember when using glue-ins is that you cannot clip back into the newly placed bolt, and since you wouldn't want to hand drill temporary holes for mechanical bolts (later to be removed), 'keeping in' while using glue-ins is a bit difficult. However, FRC is pretty much vertical, so this shouldn't be too bad.
I hope this info helps to answer some of the questions that have been raised. Thank you to all of you willing to go and undertake the task.
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
Jeff wrote:...Also think it should still be considered that people might start bailing/rapping directly off of glue ins causing faster wear than is possible on a "regular" stainless bolt/hanger assembly, resulting in us being back at this point (re-bolting) sooner rather than later.
Yep, Jeff, you've made some excellent points about the glue-ins. And, yes, we are concerned about folks rapping/lowering from the top anchors and wearing them out, thus causing a down-the-road replacement of a glue-in. Not a good thing. So, at the top anchors, I've been fitting the Titt bolts with 2 quicklinks per bolt. (2 so as to orient the lower quicklink perpendicular to the rock face.) When the quicklinks wear excessively, you just replace them instead of the glue-in.
But, as for bailing at an en-route bolt, we just hope that won't be a frequent, and therefore, significant wear factor.
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
Saxman wrote:How would you core drill out an old bolt without a drill?
Sorry, you gotta have a battery-powered drill. So, this info is best applied to climbs outside noise-verboten lands.
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
Sounds like the right gear for sure. Still kinda think it will be better to drill a new hole - just makes it easier to be clipped into the old hole, even on vert routes, esp. when using a hand drill. But, then old holes don't bother me that much.
All we need now is someone to take some ownership of the planning, getting the gear, etc. And, that person isn't me! So, hopefully someone will step up for that spot - fame and glory await...
I don't want any fame or glory, but I'm willing to take it on.
I'm not footing the bill for the entire cliff so I will work up approx cost and post it up with a paypal link for donations.
Once the $ has been met it's a go.
Whad'ya think?
Wes- Rockman, any anchors available from the ARI? Or if no, is the program still in effect and do you think more can be obtained?
Although 3/8-in wedge bolts (such as those used prolifically in the NRG) must be core drilled out, the 5-piece and 3-piece expansion bolts (commonly found in the Red) can be easily removed and re-drilled for installation of glue-ins.
Steps:
1. Make a tiny sharp right angle bend at the end of a coat hanger wire. Filing it to no more than about 1/16 inch and sharpening the inside corner is best.
2. Unscrew the old bolt and remove it and the hanger bracket.
3. Use the wire tool to insert into hole and hook the sleeve and cone and withdraw them.
4. Once the hole is clean of metal parts, use a battery-powered drill outside the noise-verboten lands (and a hand drill within) to drill deeper and larger in diameter (5/8-inch for Titt 8-mm glue-ins).
5. Glue the new bolt into the newly-sized hole.
If the hole slopes downward, allowing the freshly-glued bolt to slide out, try this:
1. Just before injecting epoxy resin into the hole, cut a slice of 5-minute epoxy putty and kneed it into a ball about the size of a small marble.
2. Inject the glue and insert the bolt.
3. Curse as the excess glue drops onto your shoe.
4. Jam the putty ball around the bolt at the opening of the hole and hold it there until it hardens, which is pretty quick.
This keeps the bolt and epoxy in place until it hardens a few hours later.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
i can imagine no other bolt that i would rather whip on than a 'titt' bolt.
Jeff wrote:I don't want any fame or glory, but I'm willing to take it on.
I'm not footing the bill for the entire cliff so I will work up approx cost and post it up with a paypal link for donations.
Once the $ has been met it's a go.
Whad'ya think?
jeff set up the paypal account and let us know the goal for total expenses needed. i would think that if this were advertised on the RC.knob and other various climbing sites, it wouldn't take long...
Pretty sure most of the FRC bolts that need replacing are stud/wedge type. I haven't had to replace many (any?) of the 5 piece bolts. Yet. Though sure it will be needed soon enough. That sounds like it would work well, as long as nothing is fused/rusted together, which happens sometimes when the bolt has been in the wall for a while, or isn't a spinner. I have had a couple that I couldn't get out, or break because of that, though not many.
