RRC Archives

the double fishermans is a waste of time...
not saying it's a bad thing to teach beginners, but serves no structural purpose in the knot
when people do tie one, i see them making the second loop on top of the first all the time....doesn't really matter though, except making them look like even more of a chuffer than they already do for tying an 8

I was climbing multipitch trad with this guy who uses a bowline, and when he was finishing the third pitch, I noticed his knot coming untied. He just tightened it and said, yeah, bowlines can come loose if your knot drags against the rock--you just have to tighten it back up.

Sorry. I would rather use a knot that is difficult to untie than one that gets loose or comes undone while I am climbing!

Solution: Lose some weight and tie a figure 8

steep4me wrote:I was climbing multipitch trad with this guy who uses a bowline, and when he was finishing the third pitch, I noticed his knot coming untied. He just tightened it and said, yeah, bowlines can come loose if your knot drags against the rock--you just have to tighten it back up.

Sorry. I would rather use a knot that is difficult to untie than one that gets loose or comes undone while I am climbing!

Solution: Lose some weight and tie a figure 8

thats something that could be (but to my knowledge has not been) carefully analyzed and experimentally quantified. I have heard stories of the bowline coming untied even in a competition. Anyway, it seems completely crazy that despite the bowline being slightly weaker and less robust to human error, people tie it with the sole justification that it is easier to untie. Easier to untie. Not what I look for in a knot to which I routinely trust my life.

steep4me wrote:I was climbing multipitch trad with this guy who uses a bowline, and when he was finishing the third pitch, I noticed his knot coming untied. He just tightened it and said, yeah, bowlines can come loose if your knot drags against the rock--you just have to tighten it back up.

Sorry. I would rather use a knot that is difficult to untie than one that gets loose or comes undone while I am climbing!

Solution: Lose some weight and tie a figure 8

Or as I said earlier - only use the bowline on single pitch sport routes.

Myke: The knot I showed you at de Bibliothek that day is the water bowline with the Yosemite finish. It is what I still climb on.
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/waterbowline.html
it is more secure than the double bowline.
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/doublebowline.html

Did you switch to the double bowline?

I find that the water bowline or the double bowline has a unique look that I can check at a glance. If you know the knot, you can check it. If you think you can check the 8 from 50 ft plus or more (as some guides say), you might be kidding yourself.

Myke Dronez wrote:I have come to love a double bowline (ex. b, two loops) after spending way too much time trying to untie 8's and resorting to carrying around pliers. I even tried a water bowline (on a clove hitch) but prefer the ease and simplicity of the double. I've taken many a big fall on this knot and its always fairly easy to untie while pumped, in ropes new and old. Who gives a f about what knot is stronger, they're all strong enough- tomato tomahto.

FujManiac wrote:Also, someone told me to use the Alpine Butterfly. They said it's just as safe as the Figure 8, but easier to untie after taking a whipper (like a bowline).

The alpine butterfly is a bitch to untie. It is my favorite mid-line knot though.

I usually tie a overhand knot around my sack and hope for the best.

bazoqop wrote:8...Always 8..

When it's bad, it LOOKS bad.

And sometimes when its good it looks bad.

I like the double bowline and have tied it for year, never had a problem with it coming untied, never had a problem with tying it incorrectly. The only real problem I had was when I first started tying it being FREAKED OUT all the time because other people were freaking out.

If you want to use it, use it, make sure you are tying it correctly and stop using it if you can't.

I don't rely on other people to tell me if my knot is tied right or wrong. What do you do at the anchors after cleaning? Have someone come up and check your knot?

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking having other people doulbe check you, but I believe in being self-sufficient with the benefit of having someone else give their opinion. But in the end, I think its still up to me to make sure MY knot is tied.

Oh, and I have never had to retie my double bowline. It is second nature and bombproof everytime. Plue, you don't have to worry about making sure the knot is untied from the end of the rope before pulling it.

Myke Dronez wrote:Seriously though, why do some people consistently have trouble with a cinched eight while others say its fine?

I think this is a very good question that didn't get a very good answer.

I think it has less to do with the diameter of the rope(as Rhunt suggested) and more to do with the condition of the rope.

My rope starts to look like a "dish rag" ,as Dr. Kripal suggests, and the fibers sort of melt together after a hang dog session.

5.12OW you never fall and you got them shiney new MAXIM ropes with TPT (Twill Pattern Technology) 1-over-1 sheath design that results in a lower coefficient of friction, significantly reducing drag through protection and making figure eights easier to untie!

Dog knot.

Just pour water on it to get it undone.