RRC Archives

pigsteak wrote:....sounds like there is some "iron balls" smashing together here....

speaking of iron balls and irrelevent online tests, could someone please join that website w/ the "testicular fortitude test" and create a test that determines ones "climbing status"? it could have questions like:

"You see a group sporting all the latest, most trendiest of gear TRing thru the anchors and you:
a. ignore them
b. ask them if you can take a ride on their rope
c. cuss them out and bash some skulls
d. tell them how retarded they are

the final results could be something like "complete gumby", "sport weenie", "crack climbing hard man", or "ancient crusty".
i would do it myself, but i already waste enough time at work on this website.

charlie wrote:Unless we're talking about a sport park, like the Red for instance.

Yep, sport has officially surpassed trad.

hey pig, why don't you come up with an original statement to post, instead of stealing what I said? at least give me the proper citations. plagiarizing swine.

...and rap bolting a mixed line is super gay. like in the 'lucky pierre' way.

What a joke this whole debate. These "ethics" and "styles" everyone likes to spray about were established WAY before sticky rubber, 70m 9.8mm ropes, cams, hang-dogin, etc, etc, etc. Bring it back to the way is was when the "ethics" and "styles" were established then we will see how many routes "go" with gear, styles and eithics from the 1960's. Until then keep climbing and drilling. And if your ego needs it, climb some 60 foot sport route on gear.

gregkerzhner wrote:Naked free soloing. The only way to go. Cockjam rests are allowed.

No fair! The rest of us can't cock jam in monos.

rhunt wrote:What a joke this whole debate. These "ethics" and "styles" everyone likes to spray about were established WAY before sticky rubber, 70m 9.8mm ropes, cams, hang-dogin, etc, etc, etc. Bring it back to the way is was when the "ethics" and "styles" were established then we will see how many routes "go" with gear, styles and eithics from the 1960's. Until then keep climbing and drilling. And if your ego needs it, climb some 60 foot sport route on gear.

yeah, and the 'ethics' have survived and routes continue to be established in the same fashion, only at more and more difficult grades. i don't understand your point?

Nice graph.

the lurkist wrote:With the pure ascent, no modifications are made to the stone, no changes are made to accommodate the trepidation of the climber. The challenge is are you good enough, strong enough.
...
It is a simple sport. See cliff, climb cliff.

gregkerzhner wrote:Naked free soloing. The only way to go. Cockjam rests are allowed.

Yep - Lurk's approach will always be trumped - naked, blindfolded, chalkless soloing of never climbed, never cleaned lines is the only good style, the ultimate "ethics".

What I'm saying is that that's your game. Other people play a different game and make up different rules for themselves. I could propose a counter argument of "style" and "ethics" that values quality of movement over all else and concludes that toproping is the ultimate climbing because stopping to place gear or clip interrupts the flow of the movement. Maybe that's how someone out there likes to play - good for them.

I've climbed long enough to know better - that's true. I know that we're all playing different games by different rules and as long as we don't take away from each other (by smearing each other's "style" or chopping other's bolts or bolting other's established trad routes or doing shit that impairs access, etc.), it's no big deal.

Piggy nailed it here:

pigsteak wrote:how about going out and establishing/FA'ing these monster trad lines before bolts get put in? then you'd have the FA on gear, and bolts would never be added. Pulling bolts is lame..period. (unless the equipper, like in trotter's case, OK's the removal)...folks cut their teeth on sport lines, getting strong enough in the process to then send these lines, and then bad mouth the same bolts that helped them get where they are....ghey...ghey...ghey....

And Piggy - go ahead and only established mixed routes - people will never complain about your routes/bolting (because mixed routes rarely get done...)

Horatio Felacio wrote:yeah, and the 'ethics' have survived and routes continue to be established in the same fashion, only at more and more difficult grades. i don't understand your point?

The point is, NO the routes are NOT established in the same fashion. Modern technology has made the un-climbable...climbable. People would not dream of high-ballin without the crash pads we have today, bolts and the modern gear it takes to install them put the red on the map. How often would you climb at Indian Creek, UT without a double set of camming devices? O2 on Everest, etc. Not to mention the sticky rubber and accepted hang-dogin we take for granted today. This makes pretty much all routes of today substandard to the ethics and styles everyone is praising!

Is my point more clear now?