Gri-Gri Brake Hand

[Wes]

I take my hand off the brake on the gri gri all the time. See, there is thing called "situational awareness" that is much better then absolute rules. Do I take it off when the climber is sketching at the crux? Nope. And, again using that whole awareness thing, I know that I have to act differently when using an atc. The absolute rule is that every situation is different, so try to judge them as such. Just like *climbing rules* about never having metal on metal, never having a single point of failure, always clip in with two draw to clean, etc all have times when it isn't a big deal to not worry about it, same with brake hand and gri gri issues.

[flashmaster]

The only time I take my brake hand off is when I'm using a gri gri for jugging and photo stuff and need both hands, but even then when I had my old worn out gri gri it wouldn't lock fully. So I'd be hanging on the rope watching it slowly slide through my gri gri. I decided it was then time to get a new gri gri. But yeah I started climbing without a gri gri and it was ingrained in my head to always always keep my break hand on. So I still do it with a gri gri. But like Wes said it's all about SA

[pigsteak]

yeah, I can't tell you how many hours I have spent on a rope, hanging from a gri gri, drilling holes.

the times I had slippage were like yours flash....either a worn out gri gri or too thin rope.

a friend was in from Arkansas this weekend, and predicted the Red will see a major bolt failure by 2010. I am thinking this issue is WAY bigger than the brake hand thingy when it comes to someone getting hurt. outside of wes and a poll, who even considers this when climbing here...y'all fall, jump, dog, static, and lever off of non-stainless steel hardware store bolts all day long without a care in the world, but some IAAC certified eqpt has got yer panties in a bunch for "possible failure".

this is misplaced paranoia if I've ever heard it.

[Shamis]

If you thread an gri-gri backwards, you can hold a fall if you belay properly with a brake hand.

However, assuming you thread the thing properly, the ONLY way you're going to drop somebody is if you DO use your brake hand to pinch the gri-gri, and when he falls you tense up and squeeze it. I've seen this happen 3 times. And it is the only major gri-gri risk in my opinion.

Double check the gri-gri is threaded properly. Other than that, when in doubt, let go.

I've used gri-gri's on brand new 9.4mm ropes, never had any slippage problems. You have to have a shitty gri-gri AND a really thin rope before it will fail, anybody who says otherwise is mistaken.

[krampus]

right, "situational awareness" is fine, I do it too. We of course are assuming we are always aware. I do realize though that in the event of an accident, it is "failure to be aware of the situation" that will get the blame.

[ynp1]

have any of you used the Sum? it has a straigh line that the rope runs through, my more straight then you can make the angle on a gri-gri and it still auto-locks fine. i have just dont see that being the reason a gri-gri slips....

[Canuck]

Yes, Shamis, I've seen someone dropped when the belayer was pinching the gri-gri.
But that didn't happen in my fall... I was climbing on a 10.2 rope, with a two-week old gri-gri, the gri-gri was loaded the right way, the belayer had neither hand on the rope or the gri-gri, and it did not catch when I fell. Two people were watching the belayer and were as stunned as he was. The belayer grabbed the brake-end (got a rope-burn in the process) to brake ATC-style, and at that point the gri-gri locked.

It probably doesn't happen very often (certainly much less often than the belayer tensing up and pinching the gri-gri), but it can happen.

That being said, I do take my hand off the brake-end all the time when feeding rope. But I do so knowing exactly where the brake-end is if my climber falls. As Wes says, it's all about situational awareness.

[whilojo]

whilojo..you'll have to give specifics, because gri gris do not fail without user error.

was the rope too thin?
too much rope paid out?
inattentive belayer?

I am asking, because it is easy to blame the gri gri, when in reality it is the belayer who failed, not the gear.

did the camming device on the gri gri blow? bend? break?

You'll notice I didn't blame the gri-gri. I blame my belayer. Rope was not too thin (10.2 mm). No extra slack paid out. My belayer simply did not have his brake hand on the brake end of the rope.

When I said my gri-gri "failed" that was in reference to ynp1's comment that a gri-gri won't fail when the brake end of the rope is not being held. In that context, my gri-gri did "fail", at least according to ynp1's standards. By Petzl's standards (and my own) the gri-gri did not fail; my belayer failed.

[pigsteak]

10-4

[whilojo]

Really? Who saw this? Did you send the Gri Gri to Petzl to be examined? This story is highly doubtful. Don't you think it was in your friend's best interest to "say" he wasn't pinching the cam?

It happened in a climbing gym & several experienced climbers saw what happened & gave witness testimony to that effect in the accident report.

And if it was in my friend's interest to lie about pinching the gri-gri, why wouldn't he also lie about leaving his brake hand off the brake end of the rope?

The story is not highly doubtful, and I don't think that you are at all qualified to make that statement seeing as you weren't there.

Why are people so reluctant to believe that a gri-gri will fail if you leave your brake hand off the brake end of the rope? Even Petzl admits this as a possibility. . .