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Sorry dude, I wasn't talking about you. Guy I am thinking of doesn't climb much anymore. (It was many years ago).
Not to take away anything from the feeling good about climbing for fun and all, but my question was concerning physically climbing a certain grade.
That is one of the cool things about climbing. The grade/hardness of a route never changes. It is the reality. We change around those grades. Initially we suck and a grade feels undoable, we get stronger and the same grade is a warm up, and then we get old/ out of shape and the grade goes back to feeling desperate again. The route never changed and gravity stays static (mostly).
This is a different thread, but I think the relativistic nature of what we perceive as real is totally exposed by the juxtaposition to the terra firma of a route.

Sorry too for the gumby statement. I didn't mean anything by it to those out there climbing 5.10. They are some of the best routes in the world.

maggie wrote:And I spent the season with people who were so psyched to climb that they made me feel like I could give almost anything a go (Thanks, Meadows!).

That's because you can!! Now stop wasting your time in Michigan and come climb.

asdf

Gas money... need gas money...definitely a factor in being able to physically climb a certain grade...

From a strictly physical fitness standpoint I would guess 1 year to climb 5.10 and maybee easy 5.11, 2 years to climb hard 5.11 to easy 5.12, 3 years to climb hard 5.12 to easy 5.13, 4 to 5 years to climb hard 5.13. That is assuming you are an average person before starting to climb and have the time and ability to climb at least three times per week. I think that as you move up into the 5.12 grade and above, recruitment becomes more and more important. That is getting more out of the muscle you have.

the lurkist wrote: I have always thought that time available to spend at the cliff directly correlated to climbing level.

I concur. That is a vital component to progressing at the Red

Especially at the Red(Guess I keep saying the Red because we are talking about routes and route grades at the Red. If we were talking about chasing bouldering grades or climbing at areas that were a different style I wouldn't be so quick to agree.)

I currently have been saying, the best way to get good at climbing routes at the Red is to actually climb at the Red. This sounds redundant or self-explanatory but you would be suprised how many people think bouldering V10 is going to allow them to send any route, at any time, at the Red. They do the bouldering to route calculations (like V4=Low 5.12 or V10=Low 5.14). Or they quote the great Tony Yaniro "If you can't pull a single move, you have nothing to endure" And Whammo they don't perform up to their expectations and scurry back to the gym to get more power. (I only know this because that was me)

but I digress......

Like you said, actually spending time at the cliff will be time well spent to get better and I think it is super fun. (I love preaching to the choir....Who here thinks climbing at the Red is worthwhile?????? 'Nuff Said)

the red sucks. rock city kansas is where its at.

Will the real JR please stand up?
I repeat, will the real JR please stand up?
We're gonna have a problem here..

I think I spent about 7 years climbing two to three times a week but never really cared to push myself because I was mainly climbing with my friends who did not necessarily climb but where just really good friends. I lived in Lexington so I always figured I had time to drive the hour away some other day and climb hard so it never bothered me. Now that my drive is 2 hours instead of one I am a lot more selfish with my climbing time and push myslef a lot harder.

i agree with medows, i think the head is the number one limiting factor. i think that movement and tactics and strength will all come if you train your mind.

not being afraid to push yourself, not being afraid to fall, not being afriad to climb beyond the bolts, not being afraid to climb while pumped will all let you focus on breathing, accelerating through cruxes, resting and looking for rests, moving effciently, and being in the moment. you can be completely weak and get to 11d if you are unfraid, get on harder routes and push yourself for a few months. the strength will come.

no amount of pullups will get you up a route if you are intimidated to climb above the bolts.

of course having a good partner who belays well and is motivating and is safe will ease that all along.