Variations

[allah]

Lazy crying bitches,

If you guys had any clue what you are talking about then you might make some sence. And if any of you ever put in some bolts you might make a small arguement. Beer Belly is by far better than Tika Monster, Clean climbing for the first 20 ft, Cooler moves and cooler holds and cooler sequences. And as far as adding 2 bolts and anchors to head and Shoulders, It solidifies the route. it isnt like there was one bolt added in to link into another. there were 6 or 7 bolts added to a new set of anchors far from any other route. And if you dont like what is new that people have put up dont get on them and pick up a drill and try to put somthiing up yourselves

[Andrew]

I really don't think anyone is complaining about those two routes. They sound good and I think they are great additions to the red. I just don't think anyone wants to see things like the hole at the new. I don't want people adding bolts in between existing routes to link routes together, or a whole bunch of short variations. With the way the rock is at the red we could literally put up 40 plus linkups or variations on the undertow wall or others. Greg was right about the red, one of the things that makes it special is all of the plumb obvious lines that stand on their own. An obvious variation or two is fine.

The White Man's routes are good examples of fine variations, they are two obvious lines. Anything kipp bolted sucks, variation or not.

[Pru]

Anything kipp bolted sucks, variation or not.

you know he lives for that kind of feedback, don't you?

[allah]

I dont think you have to worry about people actually adding a bolt here or a bolt there. And a few of those type of routes wouldnt be a bad thing, I could think of a few examples that would make for great routes that would have a straight rope line.

[ATLdude]

Trust me- I've bolted plenty of lines.

Links and variations are weak- find your own route to bolt. (of course there are rare exceptions like if the wall is only accessable thru one line)

Like I said WTF is this Utah? When you have to color code draws/bolts so you can be sure you're on route it's time to stop the maddness.

[captain static]

It looks like More Bolt=More Fun is in the lead. Interesting.

All these options were my initial reactions to Mike Doyle bolting an extension and a variation on Head and Shoulders at Drive-By...

Actually, if you do the math, the three categories that eschew variations and link-ups are ahead 57% to the two categories that support more bolts / variations - 43%.

What is confusing and possibly even more offensive with Head and Shoulders are comments in the online guide that could lead one to imply that this is a bolted crack climb. Yet on the other hand I know that the FA in this case is a strong trad climber so what was his reason for bolting it?

[JR]

Thanks for the Math. Goes to show that you can read into polls anything you want.

Head and Shoulders is a bolted crack. Haven't you seen it?

[captain static]

Never really looked at it. Will have to next time I'm at DB.

[JR]

And a few of those type of routes wouldnt be a bad thing.

It seems like you also have some reservations about it. How many are a few? What if I add 6 or 7 bolts branching off Paradise Lost to create a new line? Believe it or not I am on your side here, I think the bolters deserve respect for their hard work, time, money, expertise, etc. I am just a climber. I will climb these variations and/or extentions. I will happily add them to my ticklist. I just thought you of all people would not support compromising the original vision of the line. In this case, I don't think anyone would argue that the line(on Head and Shoulders) is anything other than the bolted crack which if memory serves terminates at the original anchors.

Flip-Flopping threads for a moment. I am in support of moving bolts to more optimal positions ala 50 Words, 50 bucks, Milf Money.....

It might seem like I am saying these bolts bad those bolt good..... They are just bolts. I don't have to climb on them at all. If I were a purist I could easily avoid all contact with bolts. Fact is I choose to sport climb but it doesn't mean I don't have any preferences. In this instance, I wrongly thought that people would not support Head and Shoulders being chopped up into three different routes.

[Wes]

Variations, extensions, moving bolts, etc need to be judged on a case by case basis. Some might be cool, some might suck, but you can't really make broad generalizations about them, any more then you can about stand alone routes.