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i would be kinda pissed if any route, with "stimulation" purposefully engineered into the route, was re-equipped to make it safe to the general consensus...even if the route was dangerous/contrived, bad falls/relying on one bolt/etc. it's what makes the route. a route doesn't have to be climbed by everyone...people can always toprope. on the other hand, an ordinary sport route with clips in stupid places should definitely be re-vamped - fire and brimstone comes to mind in this category.

Kampsight will never be the same. Creepshow will never be the same. I enjoyed those routes before the added bolts. Both were safe. I caught a big fall on Kampsight and they, novice, walked away just fine. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

wes i guess you mean funk/manic at Funk Rock. i agree with the logical ending but the runout/cam placing and the moves at the top are great parts of that route.

rope drag a problem? don't use a rope.
top rope pain in the ass?? belay from above and both rap down. might teach some folks some things.

to all the reequippers, hoozah!!

Matt, what are a couple routes that are "stimulating" and that were designed to be that way by the FA? I agree that not every route needs to be 100 percent safe, though I also think that a messed up bolt job should not qualify for exception, just because it has always been that way. And I also don't think a route should be scary just because it has old bolts. Replacing them might cause more traffic to the route(ie, mule), but I don't think that is always wrong.

I did Kampsight before Johnny moved the bolt, and thought it was better after, as you could climb straight up, rather then having to traverse over and make the death clip.

JR, nope, not at FRC, at WOD. Toxic Avenger is the route I was talking about. And at the same time, chemical imbalance is great as a mixed line, and I wouldn't ever want bolts added, though newer bolts wouldn't be a bad thing.

Thanks again for all the responses and feedback.

Wes wrote:Matt, what are a couple routes that are "stimulating" and that were designed to be that way by the FA?

i was talking to one Old Schooler about some of his lines and he mentioned that a lot of the times they were sparsely bolted because bolts were expensive - not because he was trying to create "stimulation."

i'm sure each bolter is different in their reasons for the method and madness behind their placements. it sure is an interesting subject to consider.

Wes wrote:Matt, what are a couple routes that are "stimulating" and that were designed to be that way by the FA? I agree that not every route needs to be 100 percent safe, though I also think that a messed up bolt job should not qualify for exception, just because it has always been that way. And I also don't think a route should be scary just because it has old bolts. Replacing them might cause more traffic to the route(ie, mule), but I don't think that is always wrong.

I did Kampsight before Johnny moved the bolt, and thought it was better after, as you could climb straight up, rather then having to traverse over and make the death clip.

JR, nope, not at FRC, at WOD. Toxic Avenger is the route I was talking about. And at the same time, chemical imbalance is great as a mixed line, and I wouldn't ever want bolts added, though newer bolts wouldn't be a bad thing.

Thanks again for all the responses and feedback.

Not sure if "No Place Like Home" was meant to be a bit spicey or not when it was bolted but it comes to mind as a route I would hate to see re-enginered. The spicy-ness makes it a great route. Having said that, it could stand to be rebolted. It's been 2 years at minimum since I've been on it, so maybe it has been re-bolted(?).

Toxic Avenger is great as is except for having to traverse left and gain the ledge for the anchors. IMO it could use a set of anchors.

WOD has some old bolts.

What do you think about anchors on Toxic Avenger Hugh?

It is Neal's route. I will ask him his level of concern. As I recall they are 3/8th and old. Prob jingus.

yeah, replacing old gear is fine...a route shouldn't be scary b\c of bad bolts. i can't really think of anything really dangerous, but runout routes that could have bolts easily added would be: tuna town, prime directive, primus noctum, and the bsbd. even those aren't what i would call stimulating. i guess i was just thinking of reading about some of the routes on the taipan wall, grampians that had cruxy climbing way above bolts.