maine wrote:
It has become very apparent that the climbing community has changed considerably in recent years.
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Royal Robbins and his ilk were just as childish, egotistical, and self-righteous as any contemporary climbers. Attempting to refer back to some golden age of climbing etiquette is a fantasy.
ZSpiddy
Sport & Trad Closure at Torrent Falls
Mark and Kathy thanks for all you all have done for us climbers. I know I will definately come in and stay at your cabins. Can't get any better than that.nice cabins and a whole climbing area to yourself
Take care
Take care
Who Me? I gotta hitch hike god damn 18 miles to get a god damn beer......that's bullshit.
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anticlmber
- Posts: 3393
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:34 am
so just a question to chriss and the likes. if miguel were to close the camping at his store due to the lack of respect and general headaches, would you still give him buisness? i know that at times he has had his fill with the drunken, messy, disrespecting, and at times theiving "climbers." if you did still give him buisness what would make him different from the next? what is climber friendly? being able to endure stupidity until it has made you so angry you want to spit. putting up with self-centered, egotistical, people who feel they are entitled to something? what, i ask is climber friendly? in answearing this are YOU a good representation of a climber? are YOU landowner friendly? i myself do not want to be called a climber, if it means that i am part of some jackoff group of retard, bitches.
jr
jr
Like me on facebook but hate me in real life
anticlmber, Amen and well said.
Mark and Kathy have been great, and they have my total support with this decision. I know I will still be eating at the BBQ, along with Miguel's and RRO because I like to support all the climber friendly businesses in the area. And, getting a few people together to rent a cabin for a weekend sounds like a good thing as well.
Mark and Kathy have been great, and they have my total support with this decision. I know I will still be eating at the BBQ, along with Miguel's and RRO because I like to support all the climber friendly businesses in the area. And, getting a few people together to rent a cabin for a weekend sounds like a good thing as well.
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda
I do not disagree that climbers have always been childish, egotistical . . . however, the difference again is the NUMBERS!!Zspider wrote:maine wrote:
It has become very apparent that the climbing community has changed considerably in recent years.
*********
Royal Robbins and his ilk were just as childish, egotistical, and self-righteous as any contemporary climbers. Attempting to refer back to some golden age of climbing etiquette is a fantasy.
ZSpiddy
There are significantly more climbers in the Gorge which is indisputable. Therefore there are simply more childish, ego . . . . climbers to deal with.
And yes sorry but the tenor of the community has changed considerably. As each generation changes. And while the changes can be both good and bad those of us who have been around for a bit can't help but wax nostalgic on occaision.
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at first, i thought i was angry about all this. then i had to realize, though, that it's not that i'm actually angry.. but very frustrated. i'm stuck.. we (as in the climbers on this board) generally tried so hard to work things out. and we did in the spring and things were definitely better. but now, again, after so much energy spent, in the end it's lost. and i guess i feel like what more could we have done? and would have even mattered at all? how can we possibly cater to and protect against the lowest common denominators? after all, those are the ones that ruin it.. it's just another failure and it seems to take a lot of momentum from me and the community.
as for dissenters, they, just as mark and kathy, are entitled to their course of action. as anticlmber said, people are entitled to do what they much to protect their interested. the right or wrong of that.. well, not for me to decide. to quote samuel clemens, though, "whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." if nothing else, people that disagree with us help us better understand our own beliefs and feelings. and if we encourage people to avoid starbucks to express their feelings, we should encourage people to support or avoid mark and kathy based on their beliefs. that said, i would also point out a few other things to them other than just the climbing on their property.. and i would probably tell them about the $.75 bowl of ice cream! i'm a sucker for ice cream so i'll be there
anyway, as dennis miller might say.. that's just my opinion. i could be wrong.
on a different note, would someone with a more legal background have some insight on this: if requesting money to climb on private property negates the "recreational use" ideas of immunity from legal liability, does requiring a cabin rental to climb on the land open them up to the liability aspects?
as for dissenters, they, just as mark and kathy, are entitled to their course of action. as anticlmber said, people are entitled to do what they much to protect their interested. the right or wrong of that.. well, not for me to decide. to quote samuel clemens, though, "whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." if nothing else, people that disagree with us help us better understand our own beliefs and feelings. and if we encourage people to avoid starbucks to express their feelings, we should encourage people to support or avoid mark and kathy based on their beliefs. that said, i would also point out a few other things to them other than just the climbing on their property.. and i would probably tell them about the $.75 bowl of ice cream! i'm a sucker for ice cream so i'll be there
anyway, as dennis miller might say.. that's just my opinion. i could be wrong.
on a different note, would someone with a more legal background have some insight on this: if requesting money to climb on private property negates the "recreational use" ideas of immunity from legal liability, does requiring a cabin rental to climb on the land open them up to the liability aspects?
and great loves will one day have to part -smashing pumpkins