Double Amputee bashed by Hillary

Other Crags, Aid Climbing, Bouldering, etc...
charlie
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:55 pm

Post by charlie »

I will pass and leave any of you people on my way to Wakarusa in two weeks. Only the strong will survive.
Steve
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:34 am

Post by Steve »

Meadows wrote:Steve, Those are good examples, except in this case, they were 29,000 feet up. All your examples are in civilization don't require me to sacrifice my oxygen for someone to live.

I can't help but wonder if someone who was so ill prepared for the trip up, might've had death in mind ...
Oh sorry Meadows I forgot that we as humans become self absorbed, uncivilized anarchist when we get above 28,999 feet! My bad, I should spend more time at altitude so I too can learn to be an animal. But there are situtation lower elevations where people take deadly risks or give something to help another person in need. Anyway, I got no clue what I'd do up there in a situation exactly like that one. High altitude mountaineering is a pretty dangerous pastime without any clear cut rules. Well, maybe getting down alive. Serriously 40 + people? Sounds like a bad day at any given crag in the Red, let alone the top of the world.
I see they are still lopping off mountains in Eastern Kentucky. Electricity isn't cheap.
Meadows
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Post by Meadows »

I'm not sure what I would do, and we don't have all the details (how close was the man to death?). One thing that is taught right away in WFA courses is that when an attempt to rescue someone means risking your own safety and life, then it's not worth it.

I would however, administer CPR/First Aid should I encounter a situation on my trip to the GAP. I even carry a mask on my keychain and one in my car just in case.
rhunt
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Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:02 pm

Post by rhunt »

flyinglow wrote:money is the root of all evil.
Correction..the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.
gunslnga
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:31 am

Post by gunslnga »

FLYINGLOW STATED......
I'm no mountaineer, but i've gotten the impression that a lot of people die up there even when they do things right, life itself is hanging on by a thread up there without any extra burdens. that energy you give up to help another might be what you need to survive yourself

GUNSLINGA RESPONDS......
Fireman, Policeman, Soldiers, Doctors, to name a few, ignore they're own safety everyday to help people they do not know. These people were on vacation, if you paid $2000.00 dollars to go to Disney for a one day only trip, would you step over a man having a heart attack to keep from losing your place in line????? I think it's in your soul to be a saviour, your brain, under duress, great panic, stress, or disaster no matter what the odds are or might be, will instinctivly react to whats at hand, I think it's called flight or flight syndrome. I personally was in a scene 2 years ago by total fate/destiny/whatever. Who here remembers the boat wreck on the Ohio river, where one big racing boat ran over a small run about style boat??? I was at the dock when the boat was towed in by some good samaritans.
One of the good samaritans was a Vietnam vet and happened to be a combat medic. His freind heard the people moaning and calling for help and was going to pass them by, but Ron jumped from the boat, into the Ohio river, in the dead of night, to swim to them because he knew they needed help. Ron(Viet Vet) swam 100 yards in rough current to get to the boat. He got on and thats when he told me his 35 year old training kicked in and he started to treat these people. His freind showed up and towed the boat to the dock where me and my brother(Fireman/Emt) were. My brother approached me and told me there were some injured boaters who needed our help, I've seen some fucked up shit, but this was the worst in awhile. I jumped on the boat before I totally looked into what was in it. Ron was holding a torniquet on a partially severed arm and his hand on the craked skull with gray matter starting to come out. A guy with a bone protruding out of his right upper arm and a knot on his head the size of a golf ball was talking to no one on a broken cell phone. a guy who's whole face was crushed was the next I saw than his brother with two femural breaks was under him. The bigger boat hit them exactly in the rear and went over them crushing them as well as hitting them dead on. We got them off before the first ambulance arrived and had set up a triage before the first paramedic was on the scene. All of them survived, the arm and brain guy(brian a school teacher) has fully recoverd and has 98% of the use of his arm and hand. Every one else fully recoverd physically, mentally I don't know. Th Vietnam Vet Ron, was in tears at the end of the night, he kept second guessing himself on his techniques, was his torniquet tight, did he release and apply the right amount of seconds between each, did he miss something??? I assured him that Brian(arm/brain) was still breathing because of him, his arterial bleed would have bled him out if not for the tornequet. We all ate dinner one year later, No I do not regret my instincts and I would not have left that man alone on the mountain.........
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.....
gulliver
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Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:39 am

Post by gulliver »

Meadows wrote: One thing that is taught right away in WFA courses is that when an attempt to rescue someone means risking your own safety and life, then it's not worth it.
Sounds more like covering their butt than anything else. I don't think I've ever gone out in the wild with anyone that bought that.
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SCIN
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Post by SCIN »

This entire ordeal was filmed and shown on Discovery. They showed Ingles and even a 10 summit timer Sherpa try to save the man. None of them wanted to leave him behind and they were not on their way to the summit. They were on their way down from the summit. Russel had to convince one of them to come down because there was no way he alone could save the man. The guy was in a brutal spot on the mountain and just about everyone is low on oxygen at that point so the clock is ticking for everyone, including those who wanted to help him. It's not like he was at a spot on the mountain where they could just push him down the hill. It would take an entire rescue team of strong Sherpas to retrieve him. He was a big guy too. It was kind of sad because one of the guys who discovered him, Max, was crying because he wanted to help but knew he couldn't. Very erie footage. Russel is one of the most experienced guides on the mountain so I would have listened to him also if he told me I only had 30 minutes of oxygen left, could not help the man, and needed to get down quick.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!

-Horatio
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Saxman
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Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:10 pm

Post by Saxman »

Trying to save someone when there is no hope of success and it will kill you is more stupid than not helping them.
The theory of evolution is just as stupid as the theories of gravity and electromagnetism.
Zspider
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Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:02 pm

Post by Zspider »

Saxman wrote:

Trying to save someone when there is no hope of success and it will kill you is more stupid than not helping them.

*************
Yeah, but wallowing in all that self-righteous indignation is too much fun to bother with facts.

ZSpiddy
gunslnga
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:31 am

Post by gunslnga »

SCIN wrote:Russel because there was no way he alone could save the man. The guy was in a brutal spot on the mountain and just about everyone is low on oxygen at that point so the clock is ticking for everyone, including those who wanted to help him. It's not like he was at a spot on the mountain where they could just push him down the hill.down
Scin,
Saw the movie today, I will back off opinions I made about those involved, but will still say more could have been done. This area you refer too should have been a o2 dump, just like the one a little farther down, where they re-upped. Peaople have been up and down that mountain hundreds of times, by now would'nt you think better beta could have prevented this, better planning???? I don't know, still can't get past common sense I guess :roll:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.....
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