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we don't have to agree or sit and break bread or even pretend to like people we don't like, but dammit, people should show respect where it is deserved. Is that too fucking much to ask? All of this criticism and provocation is nothing but destructive. It gets to the point where even the most innocent comment is perceived as an attack. And what have we got to show for it? Climbing areas either closed or at risk of being closed. This is bull shit.

pigsteak wrote:hey dhoyne...want some facts to back that up, or is that your opinion?

Facts? On the internet? I thought everything I read was true!

So what two "camps" are you referring to? MV vs. PMRP? If that is true, and these two "factions" actually exist in whatever form, it's the craziest thing I have ever heard of. OoOHHH! I know, let's arm both sides with big cannons and shit and let them fight it out like the ancient Romans and Greeks fight over the Kasmir region in Alaska!


MJ

i like the cannon idea...lol

sandy, i guess i am too new to the area to still recognize these "camps" or 'factions"..

in fact, until it was mentioned on here the last few days, I had no idea such a thing actually existed...

i bolt and climb in both areas, and have had nothing but wonderful experiences with all involved.

sandy, you mention respect where it is deserved. i am not clear on what that means. are you talking about common courtesy, which is what i suggested with the "taking it private" suggestion. all we are doing, you and I included, is keeping this thing inflamed by our posts and comments. i still think 'respect" and "courtesy" are vastly different ideas.

for my part, this will be my last post regarding the latest "break out".

but which camp do I belong too? i think i have equal routes in both areas...

yeah, I'm done, too. The last thing I want to do is inflame this situation. That was not my intent. You are right, I am using courtesy and respect interchangeably. I guess I am courteous out of respect? Certainly the people I'm talking about have lots of reasons they deserve respect.

I have an idea for all posts like this:

That's funny if there are Muir Haters and PMRP Haters. The better climbers will ignore any of that shit and instead climb at both areas for more routes. It's all sandstone. What a limited word you live in if you take a "side" in your local climbing area. Where does the National Forest land (read Porter routes) end up in this battle? Is it like the old retired heavyweight? Climb everything in sight without regards to local "Hatfield and McCoys" boundaries. Oh, but wait, this is Kentucky. Climb fast. Move on. Climb every route in sight. Get stronger.

You forgot the "drink beer" part. That's the best part.

Mj

I agree that those who are interested in climbing will not take sides. To make this issue (by anyone) a MV vs. PMRP is, in my opinion, silly and juvenile.

The PMRP is not owned by anyone other than climbers in general so it would be like hating yourself. Or alternatively, since I know my logic is going to get spanked here, it would be like hating FS climbing b/c it is run by the FS. In otherwords, passing the buck.

rumor has it there are two new routes going in in the southern region named "hatfields" and "mccoys"....good timing SCIN....