I'll say it again: "Cops are pigs."

[tomdarch]

Seriously, Alan, you're weakening your very valid point by flying off the handle. On one hand, cops have an absurdly stressful job to do, deal with the biggest scumbags in our society and don't get paid much to do it. On the other hand, way too many of them are simply the wrong people for this very difficult job.

I should say that on one hand, I was lucky enough to have a friend who's dad was a Chicago cop, and was a calm, cool guy - a great example of what cops can be. On the other hand, I grew up in Chicago, and there are lots of examples of the absolute worst cops - from basic criminal activity like theft and extortion, to normal day-to-day rudeness and disrespect for ordinary citizens, to the '68 DNC police riots, to the police acting as a death squad and murdering several Black Panther leaders. Even today, the Chicago PD is basically governed by it's own Internal Affairs - with no outside overview. So, essentially, it's up to the FBI to police them. (Actually, I think it may be illegal to video or audio record cops without their permission in Illinois unless they are out in public, so that news peice couldn't even exist here!)

There are lots of problems. One is that most cops, like most adults, operate on a black-and-white moral reasoning system, but they are expected to operate within a constitutional legal system that seeks to balance conflicting rights. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%2 ... _reasoning - Cops, like most adults operate on Kolberg's 4th level, while the US Constitution is essentially operating on level 5, which confuses the hell out of most people, especially cops.)

Another big problem is mutual respect (or the lack thereof). Cops are suppoed to be professionals. As much as we ('civilians') need to do our best to treat them with respect, they're the ones who need to clean up their act. Some cops get that, others don't. Then there's omerta - the idea that 'we' are a threatened group and members of the group must protect each other, almost no matter how bad the situation is. That's part of what's going on in that video. Conciously or not, that cop is going to use intimidation to protect his own - it sucks, and needs to change, but it's there.

None of this is new. There's a latin phrase: qui custodiet ipsos custodes? I think it means 'who watches the watchmen?' Even in ancient Rome, there were exactly these sorts of problems.

We should pay cops better, treat them with more respect and, at the same time, expect a hell of a lot more out of them. It's a bad situation, and I don't know exactly how to improve things, but screaming 'cops are scum' isn't going to help.

[gunslnga]

Alan misunderstands!!!!!!!!!

I disagree with the "cops are cops 24 hours a day so they shouldn't have to follow the law" that slinga stated.

I meant on # 3 "cops carry concealed weapons" there is now presently a federal mandate that allows all police officers to carry at all times. A police officer has the power of arrest over a felony 24 hours a day with no jurisdiction limits. To effect a felony arrest, you are probably better off armed, I did'nt say that had anything to do with cops being above the law, having said this, we now return to our regularly scheduled
ranting......

[Spragwa]

I meant on # 3 "cops carry concealed weapons" there is now presently a federal mandate that allows all police officers to carry at all times. A police officer has the power of arrest over a felony 24 hours a day with no jurisdiction limits.

Some police forces REQUIRE their officers to be armed 24/7 regardless of whether they are no duty. It is true that cops are on duty round the clock. They can always affect an arrest.

[Alan Evil]

tomdarch, Yes, what you said.

[anticlmber]

they only time i dislike cops is when they bust me doing something stupid, pull out their jambox, and start blaring the "cops" theme song while they whoop my ass like a birthdat pinata

[Crankmas]

watched Untouchables last night, had a great line about Rome, anyone caught bribing a civil official would have his nose cut off and then they would stuff the person in a bag with a wild animal and then throw them both in the river, cops are people, mean people suck, mean cops suck, but cops are handy if you want to commit assisted suicide

[dipsi]

Death by cop. Happens a lot.

[anticlmber]

i prefer death by chocolate myself. just the chocolate is fine though im trying to watch my daily intake of death. now where are my smokes??????????

[ReachHigh]

i prefer death by chocolate myself. just teh chocolate is fine though im trying to watch my daily intake of death. now where are my smokes??????????

autoerotic asphyxiation is underated and so is freaky friday.

[Alan Evil]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/natio ... ?th&emc=th

Sheriff's Deputy Charged in Shooting After Car Chase




By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
Published: March 8, 2006

LOS ANGELES, March 7 — A sheriff's deputy in San Bernardino County whose videotaped shooting of a man poised to surrender drew national attention has been charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter.

The deputy, Ivory Webb, who remains on paid administrative leave, is widely expected to surrender in court on Wednesday, said Michael A. Ramos, the San Bernardino district attorney, who announced the charges on Tuesday.

Mr. Ramos said he concluded that Deputy Webb acted unreasonably on Jan. 29 when he shot the man, Elio Carrion, 21, an Air Force security officer who had recently returned from duty in Iraq, three times after a car chase in Chino.

A somewhat fuzzy video taken by a bystander and played repeatedly on television programs shows Deputy Webb pointing a gun and standing over Mr. Carrion on the ground next to the car. Mr. Carrion is shown beginning to rise, after Deputy Webb commanded him to do so, the prosecutor said, and the deputy then shot him. In an interview, Mr. Ramos said enhancements of the video made clear that Mr. Carrion had been ordered to rise and that although Deputy Webb fired out of fear for his safety, his actions were unreasonable.

"We feel the deputy did intend to kill the victim and that at the time he did it because he felt endangered and needed to," Mr. Ramos said. "However, the big element was that the threat was unreasonable."

Mr. Ramos did not explain Deputy Webb's actions and declined to say what the deputy had told investigators who interviewed him. His union declined to comment. Mr. Ramos said the charges, which carry a maximum penalty of 18 1/2 years in prison, include special filings that say Deputy Webb's actions were worsened by causing serious injury to Mr. Carrion and using a firearm.

Sheriff Gary Penrod said, "I respect the decision of the district attorney's office" but added that he would not comment further because an internal affairs investigation of Deputy Webb was continuing.

Mr. Carrion, shot in the chest, shoulder and thigh, is recovering in a hospital. The driver of the car in which he was riding, Luis Escobedo, was charged on Tuesday with attempting to evade arrest while driving recklessly and driving under the influence.

This is the first time that a San Bernardino County officer has faced criminal charges resulting from an on-duty shooting, Mr. Ramos said.

Just a few bad apples...



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