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hmm bolts blowing out.....place ur own gear so we dont have to blame others for gear failure jk



i still think u guys are doing a good job down in MV!

we all love puppies and kitties

rats...I didn't get to rub it in...sounds like your sensitivity levels were already in need of some cortisone.

actually, upon re-reading Rick's post, it seemed as though he was trying to protect Team Muir from more rants versus trying to indict someone outside of the club. we haters on here like to feed Team Muir all kinds of opinions on their worthiness and value to the public school system, all the while never actually offering to help with the workload. Rick, it seems, was merely derailing that.

seriously, bryan, I was on two of those stated routes, and they are stellar. thanks for the work.

bryan wrote:

pigsteak wrote:dang..more drama, and piggie didn't even start it. bryan, did you offer to go fix the stated routes, with or without a Team Muir representative present, to certify you?....seriously, maybe offer to fix your unintentional train wreck...that'd be a start.

Too late smart ass. Like I said, i already talked to Tim and made plans to help fix the problem. Is this weekend soon enough for ya pigsteak, cause thats when i was planning on doing some work. Or did you want to get on Cherry Red sometime this week?

That's awesome Bryan. Sarcasm from both posts aside, your decision in offering to re-equip your routes is the type of behavior that will med the relationship. I know you don't need my two cents but I think it's wonderful that you did that. Especially in light of your obvious hurt feelings. Thank you for showing Rick that climbers are responsible and do care.

Just because a person can climb 5.13 and pick stellar lines up steep rock does not mean he/she necessarily knows how to place bomber hangers on overhung sandstone walls. A hole that is drilled and augered out to 3/4 inch diameter at the entrance is NOT going to hold a sleeve bolt that is being jerked up and down when whips are taken.

One more time folks -- in an out-of-spec, oversized hole, the bolt can pitch down when heavily loaded, thereby rocking the expansion cone end. This rocking motion crushes minute amounts of sandstone (easy to do when its compressive strength is only about 1200 psi!). Sooner or later the bolt loosens. With subsequent whips, and the bolt can completely exit the hole. In fact, in the augered-out (conically-shaped) holes, as the bolt exits, it becomes looser much faster than it would in a proper cylindrically shaped hole. And, on overhanging routes, this problem worsens as the angle increases. (outward-pulling force vectors)

At least three bolts have COMPLETELY exited on three of the routes that I temporarily closed. In all three cases, the holes were conically, rather than cylindrically shaped. Regardless of what you may think my motivation is for closing routes done primarily by one person, those are the facts.

If I did not respect the persons who originally set the climbs and if I did not appreciate the high quality of these lines, I would simply permanently remove the bolts and shut the lines down. The fact that we are going to make a significant effort and expense to expeditiously repair and reopen the routes should speak for itself.

I do not believe that anyone bolting down here in the Red has intentionally set unsafe routes. I DO believe that there is one hell of a lot to learn about safe bolting in this crumbly stuff.

One more important point: Absolutely NO ONE is permitted to replace any bolt on the temporarily-closed routes without meeting with me to learn precisely what new hardware is to be used and how it should be placed.

Rick Weber

edited

It is nice when they can play together and not fight

bryan wrote: Too late smart ass. Like I said, i already talked to Tim and made plans to help fix the problem. Is this weekend soon enough for ya pigsteak, cause thats when i was planning on doing some work. Or did you want to get on Cherry Red sometime this week?

That's the best slam on Piggie I've heard yet! Bryan, you deserve a beer.

Damn, webbie, why so tense? You're still sore about the Lake Muir gag aren't you?

man this shit is crazy.... but i was one of the people that looked in the guide book to find that they were gregs routes. i think all this drama is funny.