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TradMike,
What i meant by too far apart was when you see anchors placed 12 inches or more apart, which will infact multiply the forces on the anchors. You obviously want them a reasonable distance apart, but not too far apart.

Ascentionist wrote:TradMike,
What i meant by too far apart was when you see anchors placed 12 inches or more apart, which will infact multiply the forces on the anchors. You obviously want them a reasonable distance apart, but not too far apart.

hence, longer chains ( a foot or so) take stress away from this larger distance. anchors 12" apart without chains is not a good idea, but add some chains, and voila.

forget the "visual impact". I vote that 42 gas guzzling cars in the parking lot is more of an eyesore at the crag.

So true.

Ascentionist wrote:TradMike,
What i meant by too far apart was when you see anchors placed 12 inches or more apart, which will infact multiply the forces on the anchors. You obviously want them a reasonable distance apart, but not too far apart.

I know you know but not everyone does because there are a few lines out there with the anchor bolts way too close together or both anchors in a suspect section of rock.

This guy was probably a 5.13 climber. Watched him do gung ho and tissue, hanging the draws like it was no big deal. Also watched him slam is girlfriend into the wall when she fell on fuzzy, then he set up a tr through the anchors. So, this should be a great heads up for people that think putting up big numbers means you are safe, or really know what you are doing. I think I have heard almost as many stories of strong climbers hurting other strong climbers, then I have of gumbies hurting gumbies

Spragwa wrote:Wes noticed a guy TRing through the anchor of Tissue Tiger this weekend. I was psyched to hear Wes explain to him that you shouldn't do that. He took the time to tell the guy how much cost and effort goes into anchor replacement. I don't think the guy cared because he justified it by saying his girlfriend wouldn't make it to the top. How lame? He could just go back up and clean like everyone else.

see I think that instead of everyone bitching and whinning on here about people TR's through anchors, we should be having real discussions about what to do to work with anchor wear. As Wes's story show, we are not going to stop ignorant people even if we directly confront them. What can we do to make anchor maintance easy/safe and cost effective. Stop trying to change the way ignorant people climb...just let nature take its course.

I say chains with quick links at the rope end is the best way to go.

As far as a visual impact, you have to admit the chalk is way more eye-catching. I have to agree with Rob, chains with quick links. I am sure most climbers that are putting up routes would not disagree with a burly anchor to start off with plus a couple of quick links for ease of replacement. It just comes down to initial cost and carrying the extra weight to the route. It is a lot of work and expense to begin with.

can anybody come up with a good reason for not putting a couple chain links on an anchor?(other than "too lazy to haul a 1/4pound of chain up a route")?
hell, even putting a single quick link on each anchor would decrease the load somewhat, and anybody that climbed a route could do that.

kneebar wrote:As far as a visual impact, you have to admit the chalk is way more eye-catching. I have to agree with Rob, chains with quick links. I am sure most climbers that are putting up routes would not disagree with a burly anchor to start off with plus a couple of quick links for ease of replacement. It just comes down to initial cost and carrying the extra weight to the route. It is a lot of work and expense to begin with.

Many of the routes I have climbed in the gorge I had to HUNT and STRAIN to see where the anchors were. I definitely think chalk is more eye catching. I guess all of us sport climbers have to look out for each other when it comes to anchors. A friend of mine who soley climbs trad said that I should invest in a few pieces of gear for anchor setup. You never know when you may need it. His rationale was X amount of dollars upfront saves you from shelling out money after money for new anchors that you might have to replace from people misuing them. Of course he is a trad "god" MY argument was that many new people would not know enough anchor set-ups to be safe doing that.

I probably have to explain to between 2 and 5 parties a week why it's bad to to TR through fixed gear. Some are responsive and others aren't. I don't think developers and resonsible climbers should have to go outta there way to fix a problem created by uneducated climbers. Try to explain the issue and suggest answers (you can actually thread the anchors and clip the rope through draws so the rope runs through the draws. Last gumbie up unclips the draws and is lowered.) If they're aren't responsive run them the hell outta there.