glueing and drilling holds what is your opinion

Post by **merrick** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:48 pm

group rates cost more not less

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:57 pm

The rock doesn't care, but I do. A lot of people do. It has nothing to do with me wanting to feel good about myself, but everything to do with enjoying the outdoors in as close to their natural state as possible. There are so few places we can go in our daily life where the impact of man isn't seen... climbing is a haven and an escape from society. Once gym ethics become acceptable outdoors, what's next? Carpeted staging areas? Moving sidewalks? It's just fucking offensive is all.

Post by **Wes** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:04 pm

No, you just want to feel like you are part of nature and all that. It is kinda like the people who buy the nature licence plate for their SUV, they WANT to believe they are good people. My point is that there are impacts involved in climbing, regardless of how it happened. Personally, I don't much believe in chipping to make a route go, but I can see times when it might not be such a totally evil thing. But, you really need to see what happens to a new sport route. I am talking about hammers, drills, saws, and crowbars. All done, so that YOU may enjoy the route. So, next time you are on a route, really stop and think about how it got there, and maybe you will see why there is such a fine line between chipping and cleaning.

Wes

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:11 pm

I would like to see a new sport being developed. Who will take me along this Spring?

Damn Wes you're going to get me hating sport again, sukka. And it's partially your fault I'm enjoying it to begin with.

Post by **merrick** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 9:46 pm

if you own a car you might as well just give up and hurl yourself off a building.

we are part of nature. what we do is natural.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:33 pm

This debate is also happening on RC.com. It's a good thread, except for the random "you're an idiot" posts... I found this reply interesting, regarding cleaning new routes.

and, uhh, for the record, when i do an FA, it doesnt get cleaned. holds break naturally, and i deal with that. lichen may rub off from my smearing a foothold, but i dont remove it.
my personal cleaning ethic--if it cant be removed with a nylon bristle brush, leave it the %@#$ alone. i DO NOT advocate prying loose flakes off to prevent injury. i do not advocate "speeding up nature" just for safety reasons. you either climb it and take that chance, or you dont climb it...or you buy a membership to a gym.

I like this guy's approach and I just cannot respect other methods. Yes, climbing impacts the rock. Hell our very presence in the woods leaves an impact no matter what we do. However I think we should all take measures to minimize that impact. Simple as that.

Post by **gulliver** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:37 am

What She Said, I think I agree with everything Lynne has said here. What's the deal with the fucking crow-bars? Is that the "concensus" among sport route setters? Climbs clean themselves. The route had a blank spot on it- figure out some other way , or maybe it's two seperate routes. "But the line went aid on me dude"- then aid it (clean , on our stuff) or leave it for that 3 yr. old out there whose gonna free .15 someday. How much glue is it going to take to 'fix' Senneca? Breaking off jugs to claim putting up a stellar line? get over yourself. Just like special climbers, special routes are significant finds. Manufacturing them diminishes the whole fricken thing. Some people seem to get giddy from turning an allen wrench and then its 'Man with the right tools what I could do outside!' FUCK U

Lynne may not agree with everything I've said

Post by **Johnny** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:23 pm

I think we should glue the Gendarme back on at Seneca.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:56 pm

and someone needs to find the other half of Half Dome!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:29 pm

gulliver wrote:Just like special climbers, special routes are significant finds

I like this.

I'm curious what the standard, accepted cleaning practices are for developing sport routes at the Red. I would still very much like to observe this process, and help out if there are no crowbars required.