too many puppies concensus rating?

Post by **lordjim_2001** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:26 pm

eye!

sweet a new era of 5.9+ and 5.9++!

Post by **gneiss** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:11 pm

someone always has to bring up Ro... jesus christ people. Ro is THE benchmark .11d in the Red. Get over it. There used to be a good hold at the very last part of TMP. It fell off but it was sooooo much at the very last part that the route didn't really change. It's .12a and IMO nowhere near the hardest .12a in the gorge. Of course, I never was an endurance climber...

Post by **heavyc** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:58 pm

I don't have any issue with someone saying that Ro is 11c or 11d, I was just trying to point out that currently this site has it as a 12a and TMP's is significantly harder than Ro, by the way it has always been my opinion that someone who is climbing at their limit is probably better at judging the difficulty of a route than someone who is climbing a number grade or two below their limt, what do you think about this?

Post by **haas** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:09 pm

Just because Ro is way easier than Too Many Puppies doesn't mean TMP is harder than 12a, especially if you are agreeing that Ro is WAY soft for the grade. Harder 12as than TMP include Stay the Hand, Bare Metal Teen, Tic Tac Toe, High Noon, etc. etc.

Post by **rhunt** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:36 pm

Too Many Puppies, now that is such a sweet climb!! I remember seeing that thing for the first time back in 95' when I could bearly get up defy the Law... I thought wow can people really climb that cool route? Then later I would hear horror stories about the last clip and the "porter hanger" and think...not for me. When I finally got on it and began to work thru the moves and figure out my way to climb the thing, I discover for myself how sweet that route is. The clip at the last bolt can easily be done with a simple balance stance that when done correctly doesn't require much "holding on" I use to fear the large "porter" hanger at the last bolt that if I fell above it, it would slice me open...I am kinda sad it is gone.

oh and yeah 12a. Chainsaw feels harder to me

Post by **J-Rock** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:21 pm

"Too Many Puppies" does have a really good rest in the middle so that helps to eliminate the endurance factor and you can do the crux move at the end with a semi-fresh set of forearms. One of my favorite aretes in the Red! Very aesthetic with great moves!

Post by **heavyc** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:30 pm

Haas, I agree with what you stated. I think the biggest discrepancy in the guide book in regards to TMP is that it is only given 2 stars. It is one of the nicest aretes I have been on and has a great variety of moves.

Post by **haas** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:15 pm

heavyc wrote:Haas, I agree with what you stated. I think the biggest discrepancy in the guide book in regards to TMP is that it is only given 2 stars. It is one of the nicest aretes I have been on and has a great variety of moves.

I would agree, I think it's classic

Post by **One-Fall** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:49 pm

We have definitely seen a lot of "Isn't this route harder?" lately. I personally think that it comes from the mind set that says, "Hey, I have done 1 or 2 (or how ever many) 12a's, so I should be able to do this one. I can't, so it must be 12b." Fact is, there will always be climbs at an attainable grade that you can't send due to lack of technique, strength, endurance, height . . . or whatever.

There is a climb i can't do that is two number grades easier than my hardest send, and I don't feel it is misgraded. I think it just hits my weakness (and hits it hard).

And Too Many Puppies is one of the greatest at the grade.