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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:36 pm
by Meadows
Power2U wrote:I have been climbing since 1993 and this is the first time I have ever witnessed a bolt "blowing", but not the first time I have heard about it. This is always a risk, just like trad gear blowing, and I would venture to say more of a risk at the Red than other crags due to the softer nature of the corbin sandstone.
Just use good judgement at all times and you'll be fine.
Maybe we should jerk test the gear as many do in trad. I think Yasmeen does that already.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:10 pm
by rhunt
Meadows wrote:Power2U wrote:I have been climbing since 1993 and this is the first time I have ever witnessed a bolt "blowing", but not the first time I have heard about it. This is always a risk, just like trad gear blowing, and I would venture to say more of a risk at the Red than other crags due to the softer nature of the corbin sandstone.
Just use good judgement at all times and you'll be fine.
Maybe we should jerk test the gear as many do in trad. I think Yasmeen does that already.
think about that one for a minute. You're kinda gripped at a clipping stance. You clip a draw into the bolt then jerk test it and it rips out. Now what?T You are 10 feet out from your last peice with nothing but draws as pro, have fun down climbing. YIKES, I'd rather let that bolt rip out on a fall and slow my fat ass down.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:24 pm
by Meadows
I'd say strengthen your grip, lose weight and pray that your belayer can "do the math" (Sunshine).
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:57 pm
by J-Rock
That roof bolt on "Manifest Destiny" has been retightened and is no longer loose. I saw quite a few people fall on it and hang on it while it was still loose and it was holding fine, but you never know. It could stay like that indefinitely or it could rip out at any time. Anyway, the worst case scenario would be it ripping out. If this happened the climber will still be clear of the ledge and the next bolt under them is so close that it will easily keep the climber off of the ground (unless they get an extremely soft catch).
If this bolt continues to need retightening then I will drill a new hole and replace it with a new bolt.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:16 pm
by lordjim_2001
J-Rock, This n00b is going to ask the question that is on the rest of the n00bs minds. Would changing/replacing the roof bolt on "Manifest Destiny" from a standard 5-piece whatever to a glue in be better option than the repeated tightenings?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:26 pm
by J-Rock
Rick could probably answer that question much better than me. Both types of bolts are strong and effective. Regardless of which type of bolt that is used the weakest link is still going to be the rock itself. Fortunately, with the 5-piece bolts they are still strong when they are loose and they will actually tighten themselves when they are loaded. The tests have also verified this. We've also considered using longer bolts on roofs for added strength. True, the shear strength of a bolt is obviously greater than the tensile strength, but even in a roof the tensile (pull out) strength is well above acceptable safety standards.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:35 pm
by J-Rock
For the instances in which we have installed bolts under a roof we have often placed the other bolts relatively closer just in case a bolt did happen to fail so that you would still be kept off of the ground or ledges. I've noticed that this is a common practice in many climbing areas.
Another option that had been proposed was to connect roof bolts with some type of cable to another bolt that is not in the roof. Personally I don't like this idea because I worry that it would be possible for somebody to entangle a body part (such as a finger, hand or foot) between the cable and the rock. Also, it seems that it might get in the way of hand or footholds.
So, for now (until the rest of the results are in) we have been placing the bolts closer together whenever it is necessary to place a bolt under a roof.
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:23 pm
by Power2U
J-Rock wrote:
Another option that had been proposed was to connect roof bolts with some type of cable to another bolt that is not in the roof. Personally I don't like this idea
I agree major bad idea.... most roof bolts hold just fine it just that the one in question here protects the crux and I am sure takes quite a beating. All in all you guys doa great job at Muir bolting routes.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:51 pm
by J-Rock
Power2U wrote:I had an interesting incident at Roadside a year or two ago. I was on Stay the Hand and leading up it just fine being belayed by AirCanada. I was at the 2nd to last bolt when I looked down and thought, "That looks odd, like the rope is arcing way back from the cliff to my belayer." When I finished the route and was cleaning it, after asking AirCanada if he wanted to do it, to which he answered, "No thanks." I came down to find out that the first bolt had simply wiggled out of the cliff due to the rope vibration when I was about half way up
He didn't say anything b/c it didn't matter when it finally came loose as I had clipped a few other bolts; however, I did do that difficult lower section with just that bolt clipped
Good thing I didn't fall, although the bolt may have held due to the caming force placed on a bolt when you fall on it, unless it is in a roof where the force is straight down...whcih brings me to that bolt in the roof on Manifest Destiny at The Solarium... a little loose and wouldn't suprise me if it blew.
Power2U, thanks for the heads up about that roof bolt on Manifest Destiny. I checked it this weekend and it had come loose again. This particular bolt had taken lots of falls and the hole was enlarged a little bit so I went ahead and drilled a new hole and placed a new bolt and removed the old one. Also, the third bolt was moved a couple of feet to the left and the carabiners on the anchors were very badly worn so they were replaced with quicklinks. Thanks again... now people won't be going into the crux with a loose bolt...