RRC Archives

Palease. Stop holding onto the Access Fund dream. The RRGCC is a much better organized operation then the Access Fund. Their positive is that they had a cash cow. We are still working on that.

So what information are you holiding back on when it comes down to a partnership with the FS? Why not bring that concern to the RRGCC?

You also seemed to loss sight that Climbing is a PRIVILEGE not an inherent RIGHT. THe bulk of our routes are located on FS land and those that fall on private land are sketchy. So secure a relationship with the FS thru cooperation, stewardship, RESPONSIBLE behavior then secure private land thru acquisition. So pony up some cash so we can. Or buy it yourself.

Unless someone is planning on being an internet nazi, info on RRG climbs will continue to be out there. So why argue w/Ray? Just for fun I did some internet searching to see what could be found. I easily found info, though sketchy, on the Arena & Solar Collector. Found GPS coordinates for the Motherlode, Drive-By, and Bob Marley (Bet they didn't ask the owners if they could post that info on the internet?). Found some various directions, route info, and pictures of various bouldering (Not sure how the FS looks at bouldering in the scheme of the route approval process? Probably not too favorably?) Suprisingly, doing a search for guides returned no highly ranked hits directly to the online guide in question. I use Google as my search engine in doing this. Better get back to some real work here.

Gretchen, I never said that a good, positive working relationship with the FS was not important. I believe it is. I'm simply quite disappointed to hear that land that you personally announced was being "purchased by the RRGCC" is actually going to belong to the FS.

Your cracks on the Access Fund are completely baseless. Am I to assume you are NOT speaking for the RRGCC when you attack that organization? Or are you?

Yeah, Capt, I still believe that all this bitching and moaning draws more attention to the thing than it would get otherwise.

Gretchen I want to join in this 'debate' again, but just can't bring myself to it. It is painfully obvious Ray doesn't care and is not going to listen and try to understand your's or anyone else's side of the issue. I would encourage him to contact the land owners and those who developed the 'new' crags to get their input and consent before publishing. Because folks that what this on-line guide is...publishing. Once climbers find the on-line guide and figure out how the heck to use it spring will have sprung. The Arena and Oil Crack will look like a busy day at Left Flank (some days they already do) and there is are several POTENTIAL access issues out there that we as climbers who use the land can't let spiral out of control. OK, going to shut up now because I'm getting involved in this 'debate' again.

What are you talking about Steve? John published Oil Crack in the previous guidebook. The Arena is like right next door to it. Are all of you guys smoking crack? Am I in the Twilight Zone?

Another thing......
Don't you think that spreading the crowds out and away from Left Flank is a good idea? Knowledge of a new crag will not bring more people to the Red. It will only disperse the current visitors. Is this not a good thing to do?

They are on crack. Information has a way of getting out, and the internet is full of information that some people would rather not be there. Once routes are in place, then it is only a matter of time before the masses find out about them, with or without a guide. At least with a guide you can help point people in the right direction parking and trail wise, so you can head of some issues.

I went hiking last weekend up to indian staircase, and there is a major arch site (fenced off) and white-haired golden rod (not fenced off), right in the middle of the trail. And there was a fire ring, with freshly burned wood, not 20 yards from both, which is also in a rockhouse. Yet I can find directions to that on the net and from a print guidebook, and no one is trying to stop that.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

Wes

Ray does understand the other side of the issue but his main motivation is to create a comprehensive database of crag and route information of the Red. This is not illegal. And like you already said Steve, he IS relying heavily on the old book as well as will be adding those routes developed since the last guidebook's publication. That's evolution plus there's a need for it.