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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:32 pm
by Acer
"I'm not going to climb on that route. I already climbed it. " would have been a perfectly reasonable initial response.

Instead, you're being the alarmist. Mention of avoiding one route led you to spewing about closing all the routes in the red. That sort of exaggerated reactionary mentality is just useless and counterproductive. If we were better stewards of the land, whether its protecting endangered species, common wood rats, or an endangered endemic plant, we might get to use it longer and gain wider acceptance with the rest of the population. Not to mention we'd get to enjoy the aesthetic benefits of it too, i.e. climbing in a beautiful place.

I would be in favor of closing a handful of routes, or how ever many it takes :shock: if some animal, or plant is depending on its space for living. I mean, unfortunately, I don't think climbers are going to become the endangered ones, I don't know if you've seen, but we're spreading out like the plague. Maybe with all our masses we can construct some sort of rat relocation program, or plant re-planting initiative, so we can climb over ever inch of rock in eastern KY without harming anything. Just kidding, just kidding, don’t get started...

Anyway, it's been an interesting exchange. I'm through with it now. Lets move on shall we? Its not as if its solely up to you or me anyway. Several of us have already stated that we won't be climbing on that route so the purpose of the post has been somewhat served. I just think it important, and often overlooked, that we pay attention to issues like this, and that sometimes, people step up and say what everyone has been thinking anyway.

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:33 pm
by Acer
No doubt Rick, pretty funny.

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:43 pm
by Lateralus
I'm definitely with J-Rock on this one, where does it end. I've stressed countless critters on pretty much every approach I've made in the Red and almost every cliff, as mentioned several if not hundreds of routes have signs of animal life somewhere on it or nearby. I try to minimize my impact to the natural world but I know that by just being there rats are getting ulcers (not to mention a lot of unhealthy junk food), birds forget where south is and a lot of greenspace is going up in smoke. Since I'm OK with being an ecoterrorist, me and the baby rats would sleep a lot better at nite if those kind folks who don't want to disturb nature would simply not do so. We'll miss you, really, but the forest you love will not --

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:59 pm
by rhunt
My thoughts.. If this rat is truly endangered and our presents if a threat to it then yes we should close the route and let it do its thing. But there are two other routes right next to it and I'm thinking this little rat will be just as bummed out by me climbing next to his home too so we should probably close all the routes at that cliff.

If climbers are truly concerned about little rats and plants and how our presents affects those things then we should stay out of the woods.

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:58 pm
by captain static
To set the facts straight, the Allegheny Woodrat is not listed as either a Federal or State Threatened or Endangered species in Lee County according to the Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife. Here are the appropriate links to their website:

http://fw.ky.gov/kfwis/speciesInfo/coun ... CountyFips
http://fw.ky.gov/kfwis/speciesInfo/coun ... CountyFips

On one hand, I can understand some people's feelings for not wanting to disturb cliff life whether it is endangered or not. On the other hand I can understand other people's feelings of not wanting to go overboard and create an unnecessary access issue.

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:20 pm
by OZ
What's all the fuss? Once Bush pushes his "environmental" agenda through (he has a mandate, don't ya know), we won't have to worry about saving anything - endangered or otherwise.

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:22 pm
by Spragwa
I totally back Acer on this one. We climb. It's a sport. YEs it's important but I believe that protecting these creatures is more important. Maybe if we were better custodians of the rock that we have control over then we wouldn't have lost the privilege of climbing at Military's closed areas. Perhaps...just perhaps...the Forest Service would have trusted us to act responsibly. Perhaps...just perhaps...we wouldn't have lost the Hominy Hole. Perhaps...just perhaps (and probably not in this case) we wouldn't have lost Pocket Wall. Come on people. Use some discretion.

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:42 pm
by rhunt
check www.rrgcc.org go to the forum and see what's been posted about this issue

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:45 pm
by ynot
Man has been trying to exterminate rats and mice for a couple hundred years with no luck.

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:27 pm
by J-Rock
I was recently informed that an anonymous bubba has now decided to climb Green Horn to exterminate this rat. Thanks for bringing it to his attention. :evil:

The rat is as good as dead now. :x Nice going y'all. Now the poor little critter definitely not going to make it through the winter. :cry: