Guys....and gals.SCIN wrote:I find it ironic two of the most active developers in Muir at this time don't feel the bolter needs to be listed. You guys are too damn humble!
Route Development Recognition
I admit, I don't know much about Sport climbing. I just assumed whoever did the first ascent bolted the route. why do people gotta play me like that?
Not naming the bolter is like seeing a movie and the only people in the credits are the actors. duh.
I don't think it's a matter of giving credit, but a matter of simply documenting history. One hundred years from now we are not going to be around to speak the stories. The bolter is just as much a part of the route as the climber. The climber will come and go, the bolts will stick around for awhile (we hope).
let's see: developer: Joe Hoe
hmmm....that's 3 more words in the description...is that really a big deal?
Not naming the bolter is like seeing a movie and the only people in the credits are the actors. duh.
I don't think it's a matter of giving credit, but a matter of simply documenting history. One hundred years from now we are not going to be around to speak the stories. The bolter is just as much a part of the route as the climber. The climber will come and go, the bolts will stick around for awhile (we hope).
let's see: developer: Joe Hoe
hmmm....that's 3 more words in the description...is that really a big deal?
[size=84]Women are like tea bags. They don't know how strong they are until they get into hot water.[/size]
That's already being done Chester (documenting history in the beginning of a guide). It's nothing new to give credit in that way to the developers. That's done in every guidebook I know of.
I'm speaking strictly about providing the details for each route.
I'm speaking strictly about providing the details for each route.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
-Horatio
-Horatio
-
andy_lemon
- Posts: 1566
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:22 am
There are many people who bolt a route, that can't climb it, that might not want recognition for it. It should be up to the descretion of the developer if they want there name added on the side. It would also leave it up to the developer to contact you, where as in the other case, you would probably need to contact/hunt down several people. That seems alot simpler than trying to hunt down the FA of every sport route in the Red and asking them if they installed the bolts or somebody else did.
Not a bitch.
To the typical climber, the book is for information on where the climbs are and the rating.
But the whole guidebook is a documentation of history, not just the first paragraph in the front. We might not think of it that way right now, but historians will in the future.
I don't see how it can hurt to include that info if it is known...
But the whole guidebook is a documentation of history, not just the first paragraph in the front. We might not think of it that way right now, but historians will in the future.
I don't see how it can hurt to include that info if it is known...
[size=84]Women are like tea bags. They don't know how strong they are until they get into hot water.[/size]
Man that's a very good point. I have selfish reasons for wanting to know who bolted the route. The bolters aren't complaining about it at all. I think that's very kewl.Artsay wrote:Guys....and gals.SCIN wrote:I find it ironic two of the most active developers in Muir at this time don't feel the bolter needs to be listed. You guys are too damn humble!
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast
Whoa! Modest? Wow! That's a word I've never been described as! Take that back man! Just kidding, I think much of it comes down to being in the right place at the right time and having a little bit of vision to read what the rock has to offer. Sometimes you get lucky and find a hidden gem. Other times it might not turn out to be what you expected. This exploratory process is one hell of an adventure filled with countless ups and downs. As for the route author comments... it doesn't really make a difference to me either way. It's nice to receive credit for the work, but it's not going to have a big influence if I climb a route or not. Even prolific equippers like Porter have their good and bad routes.
"Those iron spikes you use have shortened the life expectancy of the Totem Pole by 50,000 years."
--A Navaho elder
--A Navaho elder
I think that this is an excellent point made by SCIN.
While we may seat here and disagree on what info should be included on a guidebook or not, the information should be available, and never lost.
I am a maniac for details, climb 5.6's so to me, all the info I can get will be great.
Money:
It costs a lot of money / time to create a totally complete online guide that would include all the information - INCLUDING who helped out with trails and such.
It costs even more money to include all of that information for printing.
If you can afford it (time and money) then include it all right there in front of the viewer each time, and if you can't afford it, then make a general note with emphasis on WHO's WHO.
It is my opinion that 5.12 may be called "important" or "worthy" today... and tomorrow, a 5.12 will be nothing more than a 5.10. It breaks my heart to see that my 5.6 route will not have descriptions... if that's the way we are going with this.
Man... Woman!
If I could see the face of the bolter along all the other information proposed earlier, I would be a super happy camper on my future send of 5.6 / 5.7 sport!!!!
While we may seat here and disagree on what info should be included on a guidebook or not, the information should be available, and never lost.
I am a maniac for details, climb 5.6's so to me, all the info I can get will be great.
Money:
It costs a lot of money / time to create a totally complete online guide that would include all the information - INCLUDING who helped out with trails and such.
It costs even more money to include all of that information for printing.
If you can afford it (time and money) then include it all right there in front of the viewer each time, and if you can't afford it, then make a general note with emphasis on WHO's WHO.
It is my opinion that 5.12 may be called "important" or "worthy" today... and tomorrow, a 5.12 will be nothing more than a 5.10. It breaks my heart to see that my 5.6 route will not have descriptions... if that's the way we are going with this.
Man... Woman!
If I could see the face of the bolter along all the other information proposed earlier, I would be a super happy camper on my future send of 5.6 / 5.7 sport!!!!
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Smile & be thankful for what you have.