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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:25 pm
by Wes
The only reason this site seems slanted against the rrgcc, is because this is the only place for those people to speak thier minds. Look at the top posters and tell me they are all anti-rrgcc. I think most of the people here are middle ground and are just moving toward the anti side because of the way the rrgcc has been acting. Like me, I have really tried to be helpful and to talk to people about how much good they have done etc. But, lately, I really think there are leadership issues that need to be addressed. And I find myself unwilling to help until something changes.
Wes
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:27 pm
by SCIN
Johnny wrote:SCIN, the point is that when people post questions seemingly directed to the RRGCC and expect a response, it gets hijacked and corrupted before any intelligent response can be made. Since there is no real moderation on this board for serious topics, it's a losing proposition to continue to respond like I and others have done in the past.
Keep in mind, Artsay's latest post was genuine and I have no problem with it. But the predicted conspiracy theories came out with no one actually supplying information that was useful. Artsay's suspicion about it not being a parking lot is probably true. But to really confirm it, someone (presumably from the RRGCC) would have to go to the site and take pictures of it, contact our lawyer, who would then contact Charmane's lawyer, who would then contact Hatfield, then back to their lawyer, back to ours, back to a RRGCC representative, then get posted on the board. Not only would this question cost the RRGCC in legal fees, but its so unlikely and not an urgent issue, that it really doesn't need to be addressed. That's the real answer and it is full of nuance. The board doesn't lend itself to nuance. I have tried serious responses like that in the past and get ridiculous claims like "well why shouldn't the RRGCC know what's going on on their property" or "why hasn't the lawsuit made Charmane comply" etc. (thus my ridulous thread w/ Rhino).l
If you want to change this problem on your board, then have one topic that is heavily moderated for content. Then the RRGCC reps could actually respond without fear of hijacking or red herring comments. What we have been forced to do under the present circumstances is to only respond officially on our site because of these inherent problems.
This board is kind of like Fox News and clearly has a slant created by climbers who are bitter, biased, intentionally uninformed, opinionated, etc. That's not necessarily bad when you are talking on a level of free speech, but it is bad if it claims to be a reliable news source.
John,
You seem to have missed my point. I am completely against others using my site for the promotion of their own. I have asked others in the past to not do this sort of thing. The RRGCC deserves no different. I am also against members of the RRGCC telling users of this board the types of questions they should and should not ask on this board. That is completely stepping on our toes here. We run this site and we make the rules, not the members of the RRGCC. I don't care if you answer the questions or not. I *really* don't care. But please don't use my site for the promotion of the RRGCC site and please don't tell them users of this board what types of questions they should ask on here. If I see any more of this I will ban those users responsible.
-Ray
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:40 pm
by rhunt
Call me out Johnny! I stated an informed opinion.
Here I'll do it...ok everyone here I am, I'm "called" out!....now what?
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:42 pm
by captain static
When I moved Artsay's post I was only trying to expedite an official answer and did not consciously think of it as being a "promotion" of the Coalition's site. I apologize that this was offensive to you SCIN and will not do it again.
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:57 pm
by GWG
It is amazing to me, and others, that there can be two sides that speak of trying to do what's best for the climbing community at large and be so vehemently opposed to each other. In my opinion, the hatred that spews forth and the personal attacks whenever the topic of the RRGCC is brought up only reveals the true intentions of the poster.
Think of the good that could be accomplished if all the energy spent here were directed towards a common goal: Ensuring long-term climbing in this area.
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:27 pm
by Gretchen
Back from lunch, where are we.
Scin, I think you missed Johnny's & my point as well. Trying not to promote the RRGCC, we have inclusively asked that questions related to the RRGCC and their actions to be addressed to the appropriate site. BUT people continue to ask here and bitch when an offical member of the RRGCC doesn't reply HERE. SO back to the damned if you do...THe RRGCC does not want to conduct business here. Period.
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:30 pm
by charlie
Gretchen wrote:......
What I say on this board is in no way a true reflection of what I do for the BOD or the RRGCC.........
That fact that you feel your
well publicized remarks aren't a risk to what I continue to believe is a well intentioned and useful organization continues to amaze me.
Gretchen wrote:.........THere are about 10 people tops that post on a regular basis, that is not a fair reflection of the actual climbing population that is out there. The majority of people that do visit the Red don't stop off at this board, get over yourself. .........
My experience leads me to believe otherwise. Maybe those top posters (yourself included) are not a true reflection of the climbing population, but the lurkers are a definite presence it's a mistake to dismiss. May not be true info, may be merely rumors or unsubstantiated opinions, but once it's written and published on the
MOST POPULAR (ask uncle google) red climbing website it gains creedence, like it or not.
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:39 pm
by SCIN
Gretchen wrote:Back from lunch, where are we.
Scin, I think you missed Johnny's & my point as well. Trying not to promote the RRGCC, we have inclusively asked that questions related to the RRGCC and their actions to be addressed to the appropriate site. BUT people continue to ask here and bitch when an offical member of the RRGCC doesn't reply HERE. SO back to the damned if you do...THe RRGCC does not want to conduct business here. Period.
Then would you like me to disable your account since that is all you are good for (considering you never climb)? Please, just give me the go ahead and I will gladly disable it.
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:45 pm
by Ballss
BUT people continue to ask here and bitch when an offical member of the RRGCC doesn't reply HERE. SO back to the damned if you do...THe RRGCC does not want to conduct business here. Period.
So get the fuck off the site. It doesn't seem that complicated.
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:48 pm
by Danny
Man I think you all should start being nicer to each other.