Bolt/Anchor issues on Altered Scale & Trouble Clef

Post by **Thrax** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:40 pm

There is no one perfect anchor setup in the Red. It all depends on the rock at the finish. Safety is all that really matters. They don't have to be perfect to be safe. I don't recall any top anchor failures here. As for visual impact, I never hear any sport climber complain about the visual impact of the necessary infrastructure (roads, parking lots, signs, trails, bolts, chalk, chains, etc.) of our sport . It is not a wilderness experience, as much as some like to pretent. Glue ins would be best (stess free), but are too expensive. Who pays for this stuff anyway? It will be interesting to see how the new ARI anchors wear. They are equalized, so the gumbies will surely TR through the rings. If you are ever truly worried about the anchors being unsafe, back them up. If you don't know how, you should definetely not be climbing.

Post by **tomdarch** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:27 pm

I just want to chime in on the "offset anchors, loop of chain and ONE quicklink" anchors. I agree that the odds of almost any statically loaded anchor setup failing are very, very low - but I still dislike lowering/rapping off the single (non-redundant) quick link. I know that I am putting a few hundred pounds of load on it, and that it can hold thousands of pounds, but it still isn't redundant. If the odds of one of them failing is one in a million, then I would rather have two so the odds of full failure go up to one in a trillion.

Post by **Legion** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:32 pm

Provided that it is good steel it isn't going to simply break like aluminum can.
Also you are loading it at <10% of it's rated strength - which is good enough for industrial applications. We break that rule all of the time in this sport.

I still like rings.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:34 pm

so do you you use two ropes for rapping, and two seperate belay loops on your harness, two biners and two rap devices? Redundancy is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but if a quicklink is solid, you aren't doing anything more foolish by relying on it than you are by trusting only one rope, one belay loop and one ATC with one biner...

Post by **charlie** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:01 pm

No shit. Pick up golf if you're worried about your chances of breaking a rap ring. Sometimes it's just rockclimbing people, it ain't FDA approved and it's very possible (1/1,000,000) things may not work out the way you like em.

I'm just glad I don't see too many bedframe hangers anymore.

Thanks Johnny, Lurkist, Terry,........

.....and everyone else for the time and money you've donated over the years. I'm sorry I don't say it enough!

Post by **Don McGlone** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:20 pm

The anchors on Altered Scale are probably not as bad as they look, because, as Johnny & Lurkist both stated, the crack is probably just the patina and probably doesn't run very deep. But as much traffic as it gets, it probably wouldn't hurt to take a good look. On the other hand, the 'lever' problem on the bolt on Altered Scale & the anchors on Trouble Clef seems potentially much more dangerous because of the biner breaking possibilities. If quik links were added, it would probably solve the problem, but could very easily be taken by booty-snatchers. So, any alternatives?

Post by **Don McGlone** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:26 pm

The anchors on Altered Scale are probably not as bad as they look, because, as Johnny & Lurkist both stated, the crack is probably just the patina and probably doesn't run very deep. But as much traffic as it gets, it probably wouldn't hurt to take a good look. On the other hand, the 'lever' problem on the bolt on Altered Scale & the anchors on Trouble Clef seems potentially much more dangerous because of the biner breaking possibilities. If quik links were added, it would probably solve the problem, but could very easily be taken by booty-snatchers. So, any alternatives?

Post by **the lurkist** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:27 pm

just thank me. fuck those other guys...

Post by **lordjim_2001** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:29 pm

For the anchors on Trouble Clef, would quick links <b>and</b> lock-tite be a solution?

M

Post by **charlie** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:59 pm

You're right, fuck those other guys. I got to tell you I haven't been happy with their attitudes last time I saw them.

<enter soapbox>
For the record, advice on possible problems is a good thing. Don's suggestions are the kind of thing that helps and I know there are plenty of routes that could be bolted better. But when people are criticized for providing a service, especially by others of questionable bolting experience, it just seems stupid. These things aren't cheap and these people sacrifice climbing time to bolt and build trails. My position -- I'm thankful for what we get. Especially when you think of how many crappy bolts were out there not so many years ago. Bolting around here has improved drastically the last few years.
<off soapbox>