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"This is a climbing web site right and I've seen J.H. "climb" and trust me he ain't no climber. Lets move on." Power2U said. So just cause he's not as good as you or can't do 13's or something hes not a climber. I think that is a bullshit comment because then alot of us arent climbers. I've climbed with him several times and saw him move up the rock just fine, but if you're interested in making fun of someone that isn't as good as you at climbing i think a lot of other people besides me should have a problem with that because last time i checked everyone climbs for themself and to have a good time, amongst other reasons. Not just to impress or be as good as you. Whether you were just making a little quip at Joe or not i think that comment was crap!

OK everyone, this is the first time i have been able to read all the posts on the board today. I didnt mean for this to become a, abash on JH thread, or for the results to determine whether or not he is aloud back on. And I do have to disagree with you SCIN, I thought that JH did have some insight into the climbing community, I feel he brought up questions that alot of people were scared to ask or didnt know how to ask. And him being a gumby should have no reason to kick him off. (I do agree with your reason to kick him off though)

SCIN I would also like that you not let JH back on determining the results of this poll, I would rather you make the decision and not everyone else. I feel we will all respect your decision.

I do have one last thing to say about Joe, he is a good guy at heart and really miss understood. I for one feel that he would be there for anyone in time of need. So ask your self this question, Would you be there for Joe in a time of need? answer that question and that well tell you what kind of person you really are.

So answer the poll and stop talking shit about Joe, if you dont have anything good to say about Joe then dont fuckin post anything on here or i will ask to have the whole thread deleted

Garage climber:
sure, a cheap shot, but here it is in another light-
Your sitting at muigels hanging out with your buds talking about the day's routes, your girlfrind, or whatever. Someone comes up and starts bad mouthing you, being a pervert, threatens you and other people cause he's 'loking to get a rise out of ya,' keeping mind that not one thing he says is the least bit accurate, not informative, nor funny.

You tell him to back off.
He does not.

So you want to get this guy to cool it and not beat the crap out of him, so you come up with a reason: that he is not worth the time, nor effort, cause he's just a ________ (fill in the blank)

People do this all the time to avoid fights. Hell, we train kids to do it at school. Two kids about to split each others brains open, what's the first thing a teacher tells them? Cool it, its not worth it. This guy ain't worth it.

Like it or not, in the climbing world, alot of credibility comes from ability.
So, if the dude happens to suck, you just say:

He wan't much of a climber anyway.

Notice that being able to climb hard gains repect no matter how good or bad the climber is. The statement "That dude is an ass, but man he can crank!" (something I've heard many times) illustrates the fact.

Sorry allah, I missed your last post.

I respect SCINs decision. I thought he caused way too much mayhem here.
I also know JH personally,and have seen him take care of people in need of
help more than once. In my case there was 20 other people around ignoring me and he took care of me when I was down. I find it easier to forget the crap hes done than the the good,but it is more pleasant here now so I have mixed feelings.

Huggybone wrote: Notice that being able to climb hard gains repect no matter how good or bad the climber is. The statement "That dude is an ass, but man he can crank!" (something I've heard many times) illustrates the fact.

You're exactly right with that comment, Huggybone. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is with anything. Especially with athletes. Many athletes are cocky, arrogant, etc. but they are still respected and tolerated by their peers due to the respect they get for being at the top of their game.

Horatio Felacio wrote:fuck man. if you're gonna ban people for not having anything valuable to say or gumbies, then there ain't gonna be many people left here.

Don't misunderstand me. I said that I'm willing to put up with more shit if a person has at least a few useful things to say about climbing. With J.H., the bullshit heavily outweighed the climbing talk.

I dedicate my time and money to this board because it makes me feel good providing climbing info to the public. If I want to ban someone because they are making it extremely hard to sift through all the bullshit then I'm going to do it.

Just a reminder. I'm hosting this site on a Dell Server I bought with my own money. I sacrifice my own DSL bandwidth to always be sure that it doesn't run too slow. This means I try to eliminate the amount of videos I watch, etc. over my DSL connection. I spend about $150.00/year for other stuff related to the site. I put a shit load of time into keeping the guide up to date and adding features, etc. The hardest thing to deal with is the stress I put myself under when the site goes down or something. I've spent days rebuilding the site to get it back up for people. I hauled shit all over during the ice storm to try and keep the site running.

I'm saying this because I want to show you where I'm coming from when I feel like the site is getting fucked up with a bunch of useless text over and over and over by someone with nothing useful to say about rock climbing. It makes it hard for visitors to locate useful information.

I'm not saying I don't want people to talk about whatever the hell they want to. I'm just trying to make you understand that I felt J.H. was off the charts on the bullshit meter and the Gretchen thing just took it too far.

Ray, I know i have said it before, but let me say it again. Thank You. We appreciate it.

This is Ray's world. If you don't want to play by his rules, then you can find another place to go. I would suggest Joe check out www.rockclimbing.com www.seclimbers.org www.gunks.com etc. Or, as Chester pointed out, he can start www.joesclimbingsite.com if he wishes.

I also think that a poll is a nice way to decide if he is worthy of being allowed to re-join. Although, I think maybe forever is a hard thing. Maybe let him plead his case again in six months.

Wes

The votes are nearly 2 to 1 to ban Joe. Not that it matters. After SCIN's post, I don't think there is any room for debate. I'm behind him 100%.

I'm locking this thread now so that this discussion will hopefully die. Can we stop kicking this dead horse named J.H. now?