2015 V-day Fixed Gear Fundraiser

[dustonian]

Perhaps your feelings could be better expressed in a collection of poems

[climb2core]

1- you can piss off who ever you want
2- the people that want that romantic adventure have literally tens of thousands of acres to explore
3- how in the hell do you plan on affecting this change of developing pace? Chop bolts, implore they come to their senses, pay them not to develop?

Clif, I would encourage you to act on your vision. You obviously have great passion and are clearly the man to get it done!

Beyond that, I'll keep doing my thing and muddling along until you can fix the situation

[clif]

there once was a boy named dusty,
who tongued friend's dogs' cherry for slurpees.
drilled rocks for a kick, yet stood firm where he shit
his best route name mocked the cock where he sit,
but self righteous pricks will be boy thieves,
who the fuck wants to climb strongyloides?

just for a little fun- hope you're well too.

ian-you seem to have changed your mind from the last post, but:
1-ok! we agree!
2-i admire you're ability to miss the point but as my reference to the developers would imply, there is something more at work.
3-you ARE paying them to develop. 'implore' might be a strong word but any use of 'sustainable' would recognize that if money os the limiting factor, which you seem to acknowledge, then having them cooperate on projects would at least provide a greater return on investment.

[ynp1]

Dustin and C2C are a joke... Just can't handle anything that is not in line with there thinking. Keep at them clif!

[climb2core]

Despite asking several times, so far I have heard NO specific vision or any actionable ideas that could be implemented.
Clif, how would you change and improve developing? Be specific

And for the record, as Dustin stated, bolting will occur whether this initiative exists or not. The community is not paying them to bolt, it's subsizing a better material for bolts that will be placed no matter what.

Clif seems to confuse the initiative and developers, wishing that developers would slow down. The only way that would happen is by a land owner policy requiring stainless steel or bolting permits and then removing community support. Clif I suggest you talk to the RRGCC if you want change. I do not have nor want the authority to tell developers what to do. I'm just glad their willing to use stainless.

[milspecmark]

I appreciate all of your efforts Ian. I will be donating. You guys had me at whiskey.

[climb2core]

I appreciate all of your efforts Ian. I will be donating. You guys had me at whiskey.

Thanks. Next year I may bag the climbing gear and just approach distilleries.

[clif]

hello Ian-
thanks for asking. you set some fairly specific criteria for what you deem credible, the value of which i would be inclined to question in a thorough review. but, for a quick and admittedly dismissive reference, consider how the 'community'' responded to an individual who used blue chalk.... peer pressure is a significant tool to influence behavior. so, developers who used sub optimal equipment after 2010 or 2015 could form the relationships to meet the standard (as they seem to have done, which is fine, so, having offered an alternative or at least made our choice more explicit, i am happy to let you enjoy the success of your initiative) OR, they could face the ire and ostracism of the community...

i do think there has been a rush to development and that the rrgcc's successes have not had time to have been fully appreciated and which has some inertia. i only drew upon the original link which, without reviewing or quoting i recall as mentioning repeatedly how rebolters were, to paraphrase, being overworked or taken advantage of. slowing down was just the most mutually advantageous tactic.

also, the math which you provide somewhere earlier in the thread and should developers paying for all that. i would argue yes, if they are so motivated, i think putting up a route should demand a pretty high price. alternatively, maybe a fund drive to purchase Roadside crag would seem reasonable.

[dustonian]

Nope, not going to work. 95% of developers would just go back to using plated bolts for the same price as they have for the last 35 years in the RRG. It is already like pulling teeth to get 3/4 of them to buy stainless at $3. The "community" (ha) doesn't know the difference or give a shit one way or the other. You have some nice abstract ideas that have zero grounding in the real-world situation.

[clif]

admittedly, 'developers' seem to make themselves scarce. but you would seem to be confirming any suspicions that they are willing to take advantage of the situation?

i haven't scrolled through the rapidly expanding online guidebook but someone (you?) mentioned 25-30 developers in Miller Fork, i can think of nearly 10 well known individuals. why are the rest so reluctant, is it because expectations are so low?